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Stephen Drew00:00

Hello, everyone, wherever you are in the world, I've just come back from Sainsbury's. I rushed over drop down those bags because I was worried I was going to be late for my fantastic guests, who I've known for quite some time through the architecture world and recruitment world. And I am super honored to have, um, someone here that I've respected for a long time.

Please welcome. So Damon Bowen Ashwin. Double triple barrel name, barrel name of over some I statement. It's so good to have you here. How are you?

Damon Bowen-Ashwin00:37

What, thanks, Steve. Thanks for rushing back. And, uh, sorry to make you have to say my name because it is about full even I get a bit sick and of how I'm not getting no,

Stephen Drew00:46

I like it.

I just, I just, you know, in my head something so. Is it Ashwin Boeing or bow aspirin, but like I had this cheeky look and I got it. Right. But no, I don't. And don't worry about the same these bags because he was me who organized it. So I should be the one on. But Damon will forget Sainsbury's for a second.

Cause they're doing really well. And I, we're not about that. We want to talk about oxygen. We want to talk about all the good stuff, but it's quite interesting because you're not currently directly or indirectly in the Architectural and you have all these communities now, perhaps you can tell me what you've been up to for the last year or two.

Damon Bowen-Ashwin01:26

Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, so as you know, I'm from the architecture background, but for the last year or so, I've transitioned. Well, literally a year ago I opened up my business, adapt and flow coaching. So moved into live coaching. So. Helping people find it, find a career to helping people figure out how can I get the best out of myself in life and what's holding me back and why do I really want to go?

Um, and sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's not. Um, and the, I still have a couple of clients I've kind of diversified a little bit away from architecture, but still have so many great contacts within the architecture industry and a couple of clients who are, um, From my, uh, my days have been in, uh, in the architecture world.

Um, so yeah, slight shift that almost a continuation on, but bit more depth into people's lives now, as opposed to just on the career side, I find

Stephen Drew02:24

it fascinating. And so I can, I can learn a lot from youth here as well, because that's about. Well, you were doing before and I still do to an extent of recruitment.

And is that, is that a word that everyone worries about? Oh my gosh, shit sales has people that people are leaving the podcast. Now they're hanging up on Spotify, but it's really interesting because recruitment is involved with people's professional lives, which does have a knock on effect on the personal life.

And the personal life has a knock on effect of the professional life. And the thing is recruitment. Um, to an extent it involves and all that facets and that we have to understand all those facets, because it is important to understand the people with where they are and these big decisions. However, That was quite interesting is in recruitment.

You can only do so much, isn't it. I'm not a life coach. I can advise the most efficient ways to maybe do you see view your portfolio, how to handle situations, but ultimately it comes down to the person to choose what they want to do and where they want to go. Or so I would love to know a little bit about that.

Can you run through a typical scenario that you might, how people wave and how it's different than recruitment before then?

Damon Bowen-Ashwin03:44

Damon. Yeah, absolutely. And so I guess coaching did come into recruitment a little bit, like. Fro from your experiences as well. I would imagine, you know, when you're you say it is kind of limited, but it comes in and little areas where we were talking to a candidate saying, okay, well, I've got to have this conversation with your boss, with my boss about how to leave and you want them to leave in the right way for the right reasons.

And so it's about kind of empowering them to be able to kind of confident enough to have those conversations with their boss. Um, so yeah, it did kind of creep in and little ways, didn't it. But now. My focus is very much on, you know, I come from my point of view, probably could have health and that's not what people come to me typically for, always for, but at the end of the day, I just look at things from a health perspective of how to get the best out of ourselves when our bodies are running optimally.

Um, Typically people come to be at the moment because they're feeling a little bit stuck in life. Um, they, we know where they want to. That's also going to say they know where they want to go. Sometimes they don't, they know where they think they might be wanting to go, but they know something's kind of quiet.

Something's missing. Um, it, perhaps it might be that they'd been in a job for 50 years. Um, and they're looking for a bit of a change. Um, Um, in contrast to that they might be in their job for 15 years and they're, I guess, missing that spark. And they probably been a bit worn down for the last two years of COVID having to go working from home, not are we doing this?

What's kind of going on. How's it set to the industry? Um, any industry, you know, everyone's been affected by COVID, um, and we've lost a bit of conference, um, And lit a little bit of self-belief and my job is to help people start to kind of believe in themselves again. Um, and usually people do believe themselves, but probably not to the extent.

I think, or I believe that we should, that we don't really give ourselves enough credit. We talk to ourselves like, we're our own worst enemy, you know, it's our self-talk to ourselves. It's like, it's horrible. If we talk to our friends, how we talk to ourselves and that quotes of we'd have no friends, um, which is pretty true.

And generally we, you know, we're probably going through dive with fairly high. But that's, we've lost a bit of confidence. Um, and that's not all the time. It's just crops up in certain moments when there's a bit more attention. Now there's a bit more pressure. And, uh, my job is to help people to really start to believe in themselves, but not just as a way of, Hey, I can do this.

It's actually, you know what? I can actually do anything. And I mean, absolutely anything. If I put my, if I put my mind to. And it kind of goes so much more beyond to what we think we're capable of. Um, yeah.

Stephen Drew06:43

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, there's so many when I get staff because. I, I tell you what, there's been a few times.

Cause I had a business before and we would joke. And just before we recorded this podcast, because we voted recruit when I used to run my own business and occasionally did this, we get danced that recruiters do of seeing each other, but not really talking, which is absolutely bizarre because. The more recruiters that I speak to.

It's just the fact that like you have competitors much like architects to compete with architects, just because you running for the competition doesn't mean you can't say hello to each other. So hopefully matured in, in that front. But the point where I was going with is that I used, when I used to run that business.

Times when it was going amazing. And there was also very stressful times because I had basically a enter the business commitment, which is effectively a relationship. There was two partners. We had an equal equals by the company and I, and there was good times, bad times, and I probably went into it a little bit more.

And there's only so much, you can talk to your friends about it before even I was aware, I didn't want it to be that guy, you know, like when you're having the prime to bring everyone down or was even boring myself. And so I remember at the time I, you know, I had a personal therapist, which is not exactly what you do, but what I'm saying is that it was extremely beneficial for me.

And I don't see any stigma talking about it because if I didn't have that at that time, I think just everything would have just the worlds would have completely. Swallowed me through. And then also I can see, um, what would it be useful at the time for someone like yourself? A life coach was during an awkward point where I was kind of coming to terms with, I didn't really want to do my part for.

And then I want you to do something else. And I don't know what the expression is thing, but I kind of went out of the frying pan. I was like the sauce pan into the boiling pot or whatever. Basically I went into the fire because exactly, because I went from architecture to recruitment and you know, it's like you rock up in recruitment and.

Okay. Make 30 calls go and you're like, oh gosh. And, but it all worked out in the end. It would have been good to have someone then. And just to center back to what you're talking about. Um, yes. In terms of, cause especially last year during the pandemic, while I do a bit more recruitment. There's this thing called covenants.

I'm sure. Architecture businesses having as well, where I couldn't really do as much recruitment. So I did a lot of their free coaching. And what I learned is that I would talk about CVS and portfolios and they still do that to a bit like Stan, but he was somehow it would, I could see the core issue in that person.

You know, it wasn't really. The CV of the portfolio they were talking about, or, oh, it wasn't just about getting the CVM portfolio to see there was something unfulfilled or there was something that they were coming to terms with and that's, and, and, and in a CV portfolio session, I can only do so much. And what I learned is, and I was involved with one of the two charities and I was speaking to a narcotics charity, and I was saying like, well, actually I think this person would benefit from.

To coach. And of course that's not possible for everyone at every time, but it's massively beneficial. So I'm saying Damon, and I'm sure you see that as well as sometimes getting the CV or portfolio ready is the tip of the iceberg of all these forts and feelings underneath, right?

Damon Bowen-Ashwin10:10

Yeah, absolutely. And I think.

You could have really such a great point there. And it's lovely that you saw that just within your, kind of within your realm of kind of career coaching. Um, cause he'd say where we present all these. As we're kind of talking about putting together our CV or the next move we're displaying a lot of essentially we're showing to whoever we're talking to, how we view the world and that's, yeah, it's reflected in how we view our CV, but actually what it means is I'm worried about this and worried about that.

And, uh, you know, if we're getting too over analytical and things or worrying about this too much, worrying about that, but getting really attached to things. So it's certainly. As, you know, when we're in the recruitment world gives you a little insight into something else that's going on in that person's life, hence in the first place.

Um, and then, wow, I've got so many things to consider it, but why are they, why are they really making this move? And, uh, we don't always get to the kind of in recruitment. You don't always get to the kind of bottom of that, but not often, it's not just for the creative movement might be because they're feeling.

Unfulfilled, um, might be because they, they grew up and that, that was an architect and all that mum and they felt that's the, that's the route for me. And, uh, it was kind of, uh, following the family footsteps and then 20 years down the line or 10 years down the line I thinking,

Stephen Drew11:37


Damon Bowen-Ashwin11:37

but essentially the, the world we see tends to be a reflection of where we are as a person.

So, yeah, yeah. Very much so when you're having a talk with someone about their CV and their career, How they're presenting to you is very much, they're not giving you the exact story, but they're really giving you their characteristics. They're giving you a real insight. So what's going on. And, uh, there's something holding them back for something, or there's some fear-driven thing in there, whether it's fear of judgment, whether it's fear of failing or whatever it might be, or feel expectations of themselves got really high expectations or.

Quite often being too hard on ourselves. I mean, we're all pretty hard on ourselves. Aren't we? And I'm getting better at not being hard on myself because I've learned the value of just treat me like becoming my own best friend as corny as it sounds, but loving myself and becoming your own best friend.

You're like, wow. Yeah. Well, it starts to change. Yeah, you certainly do see a glimpse of that. When a program a little bit more, when you're in the recruitment world and people are making these big life changing decisions. Yeah.

Stephen Drew12:47

Yeah. Well, I say it so easily, Damon, and then I'm guilty of running with the ball myself.

We all do it. And that's the important distinction that mean you were trying to get to here is that people are not hiding stuff. They don't know what the role is. You have. They get out of someone. It's a bit like the architect's role is when they get the client, you know, you've got to get the client, you know, what the client really wants when you designing this house, but you have to go through that process of letting the client know that your vision is the right vision.

Then there's, there's a few components in that there's trust, there's experience and understanding. And, and, and that's, that's tell you what, the first thing, when I had a fair request awhile ago, I think I over. They are there to support you unequivocally, but that also means they don't always agree with everything you say, which has a bit of a shock at first, because you can, it depends what you're looking for and how you going into it.

And I guess a bit like, um, I added there's loads of stories. Cause you know, in recruitment we could talk for ages about that person who wanted this and that. You know, I got all these great stories as well, but it is all people and it's all psychology and it's people going throughout their careers, which is really important.

So it is, it is a fascinating, um, pro process. Tell me amen. There must've been something, was it just like the files and CV or something? And he was just like, you know, I've had it enough for this. So was there, or did he feel like I'm on a Cami? Probably Stephen Drew looking at my LinkedIn profile anymore, but was there a particular reason you, you left me stranded?

Yeah, it was

Damon Bowen-Ashwin14:23

that, that was, uh, that was one main reason. Very before I do that, I just want to kind of come back to something cause I run to a health and, um, yeah, just love the fact that you're sharing so openly about going to having therapy because we all it's kind of has been a bit of a taboo subject.

Hasn't it? And I had some last year and the year before last because of a few things I was going through. And you say they're just there to kind of support you and say what you want to hear. Yeah. But, um, it's just looking after your health. It's that simple. So as men, we're not very good. Always it's a

Stephen Drew14:58

no the strong, silent type, which is, if you ever watched Tony soprano, it does know.

And spice doesn't always go that well, the strong, silent. Yeah, that comes out with a one way or another. Right?

Damon Bowen-Ashwin15:09

Exactly. So, uh, look credits you, uh, thank you for sharing that. I think that's, hopefully I'll take that as, um, someone's listening to us thinking, right? Okay. I'm not the only one. And that's the message I take, just share not as you're not the only one and we're not, so someone else has done, you know, hopefully you can inspire someone else to kind of.

Oscar a bit of support in whatever way you need at some point.

Stephen Drew15:33

Yeah. And probably just before we go back to the question that I asked you, I know I'm putting up my own questions. Yeah. But another good thing is it's not even just, I think, support therapy and there's loads of really good resources out there.

You know, you have the architects benevolent society, which kind of support the mental health that people like yourself are awesome. But also, um, while working last year were accurate Lowry, which is an architecture practice. I was quite impressed by because I got a lot of exposure to. So the senior management team and they have non-equity that were directors, non-equity advisors, and it's a different form of this open top, but it was almost like business therapy, business coaching.

It wasn't a personal thing, but it was extremely raw. And I it's so easy to dismiss this stuff cause I was just like, how much are you paying that guy for a day? But then obviously this person who's a non-equity advisor has like, if he has of experience. Maybe something that can offer the business a lot of value.

And again, it was another example, slightly different of what we're talking about, but support in another way. And, and this, in terms of the business sense, there was, um, a financial return. But in also for example, I've learned a lot from macro that I come in and talk, when I talk to them about recruitment, then optimize that process.

So there's always, you can always learn from these different things. I find it really valuable, you know?

Damon Bowen-Ashwin17:00

Um, absolutely. I love the fact that just, if we could all remain open-minded to learning for the rest of our lives and, uh, that it's almost as simple as that just be open to learning and just see where that support comes from.

Don't be afraid to ask for it. And it comes in all shapes and sizes, as you say. Um,

Stephen Drew17:19

well, that's it. I mean, if, if any. I wanted to take away one thing from this podcast, it would be that we got a bit more time, you know, I seen my Sainsbury shop, so I've got the time booked off am. I I'd love to know if you were happy to talk about it.

So transitions. Cause cause I transitioned from architecture to recruitment and do bits and bobs of other things. And you spent a long time, you know, knowing get into roots in architecture, you will come from these amazing architecture practices. You met awesome candidates and you decided I'm going to do something a bit different.

Damon Bowen-Ashwin17:57

Yeah. And basically it wasn't just that you were staring at my LinkedIn profile and isn't it funny? You would have said, yeah,

Stephen Drew18:07

we it's human behavior. Yeah. It's

Damon Bowen-Ashwin18:09

it says you don't want to. And you know what, as I was just, before I left recruitment, what am I? The project was, um, to try and set up a committee where recruiters would talk to each other.

Um, how about a bit of a round table? Once a month or once a quarter and say, you know, what have we learned about the market? And who's missing who around or whatever it is, how can we support each other and not just be in each other's pros at each other's trades, because that's not actually how it was, but there is that kind of stigma for what can't talk to him because he's from another agency and yeah,

Stephen Drew18:41

it's, it's, it's a bit like if I can use the analogy.

Um, when I came, I came to London, I was in college. I grew up with whales and I was like, I'll go study in London. They like, are you sure by that? They don't like us over that. You know that. Right. And I was like, well, I've kind of already going there. Like you need, you shouldn't tell people you're Welsh in London.

And then it was just this absolutely nonsense. And then it was incredibly accepted and I think, and recruitment, it's the same thing, everyone I speak to. It's fine. But this is thing off. Oh, I don't want to share it. Maybe someone will do something bad's, which is just so

Damon Bowen-Ashwin19:15

productive and his hair, but having worked in Dubai and Hong Kong, you know, we'd go out without competition.

You know, you pretty much openly talk about, uh, you got Johnny and now you've got, you know, Jimmy and whoever it was. And, uh, it wouldn't be such a, because you're an ex-pat you kind of, you actually, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, you know, you're limiting the people and you don't care.

You're just bonding. But when you come back to London, they're not a, it was a little bit different here, but, um, again, we have, we're getting a little bit sidetracked, but

Stephen Drew19:48

w terrible hosting scales. Okay. Sorry. So you from recruitment into coach and

Damon Bowen-Ashwin19:57

into coaching. It was probably on the cards at some point, but it just happened a lot quicker than it was going to it.

I'd read so many since, um, 2005. I remember when my mum bought me a book called the monk who sold his Ferrari by Robin Sharma, um, and Susan Jeffers book, feel the fear and do it anyway. So I've been reading self-improvement books for years and years and years. And these people, I was looking up to, I thought they were called self-improvement gurus, or I didn't even know what they were called.

I just thought they were kind of motivational speakers. Didn't realize they were coaches. And then, um, 2019, you know, it was, it had gotten really well. I'd had a great kind of billing year, um, as kind of one off of sketch and. I'll be back in the UK for about five years at the time. And that was generally pretty happy in life.

Um, something wasn't quite right, but I was kind of fairly happy and making kind of strides. And, um, then December, 2019, I'll be having these good of amnesia. Could have episodes where I'd just would wouldn't I'd wake up in the morning. Um, Uh, only for about five minutes, but I know where I was, but I wouldn't not be confused about something at the first time it happened.

I was like, right. I'm added France. How did I get out? When did I come out here? And then, then eventually it would come back. So, and, uh, which was a bit freaky, but I'll put it down to, it was always two days or something. It's always two days after drinking. Um, so, and what was happening was my brain was getting, um, The hydrated and the contrast of the two of us could have drinking it then could have the, was, could have swelling my brain and a little bit at the time I didn't realize.

And it caused me to kind of type of epileptic seizure. Um, so I would go and get it checked out. And I thought, I just, I was thinking, I probably just got some sort of chemical imbalance type thing, but, uh, the neurologist said, well, let's do some tests, have an MRI and also have. EEG, um, which kind of looks for you, the brain signals, all that type of stuff.

Um, I'm probably not saying the right medical terms here, but, uh, um, and I wasn't expecting anything back from the MRI. I was just expecting the EGS to say, oh, you've got a chemical imbalance of this. But, uh, but I think quite happen, bang. I get the disc back, um, or the report packet. It says you have a brain tumor and I really wasn't expecting it.

I knew something was going on, but, and that was just pretty bloody big shock to the system. And of course, thankfully. It was, and then, but I'd had a scan done and I hadn't had the contrast, which is where they inject you with a dice. They can see essentially whether it's aggressive or non-aggressive. And so I've got the news or if you've got a brain tumor, it's pretty big, but we don't know.

We don't know whether it's cancerous or not. Essentially, we don't know whether it's high grade aggressive or low grade kind of slow growing. Um, so it's another day of waiting. Um, as I have another scan to say, oh, what type is it? And there's all sorts going through my head to actually get the news that it is.

You've got one, but it's slow growing, low grade. We can operate. We'll never remove all of it because it's not defined, but we then monitor you, but life will continue for the moment, you know? And, uh, we need to be careful of it, but, um, you know, we can do something about this. It was enough of a cake it's going to go, right.

I think something needs to change in our life. And maybe this is a chance for, uh, you know, to kind of move out into recruitment and into something else. And I was thinking that I was thinking that subconsciously, I wasn't going to saying, Hey, I'm moving out. I would just, what actually happened was I had the operation February, 2020 just before COVID happened.

And then as COVID happened, um, you know, the country locks down March 23rd. Um, I'm left with running a recruitment business with no jobs and a lot of time on my hands. So it was a great time for me to kind of reflect and start thinking a client of mine had posted on LinkedIn saying, um, Oh, I'm at the end of my coaching qualification.

Um, in order to kind of qualify, I need to do 10 external coach against fees. Who's up for some free coaching. So I sent him a message and he said, well, it's too late, but let's have a chat about coaching anyway. Um, and uh, he put me a chat. So Richard Marshall of Perkins will over in LA. Thank you very much for setting me on this course with this particular kind of coaching organization.

And I looked at the website, I spoke to a few people there and I was like, these guys seem like they're talking my language. They talk about energy. And it just felt like genuine as opposed to a sales marketing type of thing. Um, and, uh, COVID it, I think because COVID attacks. It kind of gave me the opportunity to a recover a bit, um, after the output be think, oh, well, I can start doing a bit of personal development at the moment.

And, uh, I'll take on this coaching qualification, but look at it as a bit of personal development. And if it goes into coaching brilliant. But if not, I'll just be a bit more aware, a bit more conscious and be better able to kind of handle knife and get the best out of myself. Um, and, uh, so that started. So I started kind of coaching.

What was it? July, 2020. Um, it was a nine month program, pretty intense and came out the other side. So about a year ago today, roughly ish set up, adapt and flow code. Um, and first couple of months were a bit tricky just trying to find new clients and not too much was happening. And, uh, but I was starting to build some confidence and get a few clients here and there.

Um, and I, uh, found, starting to find a bit more of a grieving life, but also still something wasn't quite right. And. I went for a scan in May, 2021. Um, because I have these scans every six weeks or six months just to see what's, uh, what's going on with that. A little bit of residual masses left in there and it showed a bit of growth and I, on the one hand was expecting it.

And the other hand wasn't expecting at all. So I know that's a bit of a contrast. Um, not me, absolutely are my feet off my feet for about three weeks. I was just in fear mode, panicked. Strangely I'd just want to a client at the time, I kind of have a contract with a firm called blessed a digital, um, advertising tech firm.

Um, and that work was really useful for me because, um, and it was at the very beginning, um, But I just found, I was getting really enjoying the conversation. They were making me feel better. Um, because I just love, I actually found something that I really enjoy doing. So I found that having a purpose of knife and having something you really enjoy doing for that one hour session each time, it was like, right.

Okay. I get to talk about life fair and how to get the best out of ourselves. So that could have helped me through actually, I just got a three week period where I was just in pieces and then the contract can start it. Um, and timing was pretty, pretty good for that, but I managed to just turn things around.

I think I got a bit of inspiration from those are different things. Wim, Hof, breathing, cold showers, and, um, which is great for mental health. Perhaps your immune system. Um, it's great for 70 things and it kinda gave me the mindsets, um, or helped me kind of start to get a mindset. I also read a few books around people who'd gone through different diseases or cancer survivors and radical remissions it's called.

So the nine key factors that people have in common when they go through, when they they're given some sort of diagnosis and mine wasn't, you've got five months to live or even three years to live. It was a lot different to that, but it was still, you've got something like now, So I read all these books and got someone to inspiration from them, suddenly realized Scott's this kind of my coaching skills started to kind of kick into place a little bit in terms of, well, we've got so many choices available to us every single day, instead of just thinking once I can push through the fair and almost surrender to it, or this is scary actually, when you push through you think, well, What am I actually scared of?

And then that's almost a different kind of conversation altogether, but I eventually got to a place where I pushed through the fare and realized that I had 70 different choices and I could take a bit of power. And take control of my life a bit more and even start by making little changes to my diet, but also started believing that what we put on our mind is so crucial.

So if you think about our mind as the blueprint to everything else that happens. So the thoughts that go in just basically make our belief system and the whole world outside, um, or the way we see the world. So if I, and I even got to the extent. Now where I am now, where I believe we can actually do anything if we put our minds to it, including healing ourselves.

So no matter what it is, because we just have to create the right conditions, but we also have to believe it. And we've also got to give the blueprint, um, to our mind so that you can then start creating it. And then the hormones are released and it kind of happens that. Um, I don't know if I'm quite exposing myself, but

Stephen Drew29:41

no, I, I, I, I, no, I get it.

I was enjoying listening and it's quiet and it's quite, it's quite interesting. You're and your story. There's a lot of emotions going through my head as well, because I imagine that you said you should just as shocked for a second. If we talk about, um, the news of, of, of getting a brain tumor it's uncanny, I know people say.

I think, you always think these things never going to happen to you until they do, right. It's like, it's one of them. It's one of these things out there. I know it happens to people, but this is weird thinking. You're praying. Isn't that where you're like me.

Damon Bowen-Ashwin30:19

Yeah. Can't be me. Yeah, he'll be all right. Yeah.

Stephen Drew30:24

Yeah. And, and I, and then I always think I can't relate to that. So that's why it's interesting to hear, I guess. I can relate on the business front, which is definitely interesting is because I too had a second lease of life there in the pandemic, because like you, um, and fortunately Damon, when things are up yet, the phones are ringing and we're busy bodies around town, but the pandemic and I was, I was on the way to a client meeting.

And I'll never say the name of this person, but you're laughing. Yeah, this pandemic will be over in two weeks. I was thinking now this no one around right now in our islands. And, um, I went with my colleague for like the last lunch and then the week after it was fellow world. So whatever you want to call it.

And, um, I was on, I was like, Hey, we rarely value Steve, but got to put you at your team on furlough. And then I shortly went after and it was like the domino effects. And at the time. I was at a loss with what to do, you know, and, and there's like, there was like a week or free weeks of I call it and it's not far from the truth, so I'm not exaggerating boozing.

And that flick said, you know, it's just, you know, live in. I am not really looking after myself in that front. And I wanted to do something which was stimulating, which became into the Architecture, Social, which when they, from being really honest, It's the blessing and the burden, because I think I went too far.

I've got the, I've reigned it in now, but my strength for weaknesses when I do something I do at a hundred percent, but it can almost be at expensive. Well, I've learned as other sides of my house or personal relationships and not seeing friends and stuff. And, and, and that, you know, especially when you're young, you can kind of get away with it a little bit, but my body clock and the world is just keeping on going.

Oh, and the, and it's catch any two because I was developing this website. I was experimented. I was doing the community forum right place at the right time. And it was a full-time job. When I was on furlough, which I wasn't being paid for it. And luckily it wasn't attached to where I was working at at the time.

And my thought on the company were quite supportive and have a good relationship and have that to happen. But it was a bizarre situation. I craved myself because I had a full-time job, not working, but working. Do you get what I mean? There was like, it was, the project became a job and I would have to turn up to stuff and, and it was, it was interesting, but to loop it back to.

Which talking about career coaching and, and, and we had a little bit of a talk and I think we both bizarrely were having the same situation because at the start, when you were doing coach. It was coaching in the wide sense. You, you, when you start, you thinking about is a CV coach, and is it a wife coach and which I'm really passionate about, is it inspiring people is doing this and that.

I became a bit of a generalist and it's quite awesome to see you now hone in on that. So do you want to walk for that? Because is it, was it certain parts of coach and that you fought, like you said, oh my gosh, I love this. And was there other bits where you just fall? Well, I can do that, but if I. This part no more effective.

Damon Bowen-Ashwin33:52

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I could have had to kind of go on a bit of a journey, but firstly also from my memory, I definitely need to kind of shout you out because. We must've connected on LinkedIn. And then you just sent me a nice message. Just said, I've watched a few of your videos and found them really inspirational.

So yeah, you were the one who could have actually made the brave step to me first. So I'd just, you know, CD said that had me, I was like, this guy is genuine. Yeah. Right. I've got time

Stephen Drew34:20

for Stephen now. No more LinkedIn, weird Dan centers and profiles. It's like all my Cuban being to human being. Yeah,

Damon Bowen-Ashwin34:29


And, um, yeah. So thank you for doing that. Like that. No, he kind of, uh, yeah,

Stephen Drew34:35

but with no problem. When I was saying I did just to clarify for the listeners, it wasn't like I did write the message. It was more like I did like your videos and I was like this, there was something nice about it though. And I think what I quite enjoyed and why I quite enjoyed it.

Oh, your star diamond in particular, there's like this pace online. So she, when these tech talk world light, I've got to do some reels and stuff. I keep putting them off. Right. But there's this pace online of information fast. And I felt like adapt and flow. It's just a little bit of a breather. There was something that, and it was quite nice and it kind of appears the NYSE and that's when I reached there's something, something nice about.

Uh, if felt like the pace of breathing, if that makes

Damon Bowen-Ashwin35:23

sense and that we had waste that does thank you. Yeah. And it's um, well, I guess I'm just trying to just be, it's just trying to speak from the heart. Really be authentic as I can, and just say, and I thought the more I share about what I'm going and the journey I'm going on through kind of radiotherapy and chemotherapy and kind of before that, the buildup to it, the more I share about what I've learned about life.

Yeah. Yeah, that is okay to say, it's okay to let your emotions out and have a cry or whatever, whatever release is good for you, you know, really talk about that kind of stuff, but find your energy's got to go somewhere. So I just thought I'd learned so much and how useful letting go of emotions or, um, through that period that I thought I need to connect.

It's going to be good for me to share it. And hopefully I'll inspire a few other blokes out there to do that as well. Um, because we can quite easily keep these things built up inside and then they go somewhere and come out the wrong time in a fashion that we didn't really want them to.

Stephen Drew36:20

Um, exactly. Yeah.

Like as a management, you know, shouting without someone else. And if it is, it all comes out in direct doesn't they? And that's what I've learnt about. Even in relationships. It's. No one's ever really arguing about what's on TV. It's all about these built up things about, I am frustrated in the relationship for X, Y, Z, and it comes out like your show's on again.

And, and, and, and that's an extreme example, but I think he comes out with business.

Damon Bowen-Ashwin36:48

Yeah. That's very perceptive that you've