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Dave Etler00:32

Let's wrap up your year by asking each other how you would rate different aspects. Of your first year

Tracy Chen00:38

how do you guys feel about anatomy, particularly the cranial nerves

Dave Etler00:41

Yes. rate the cranial


Matt Engelken00:43

I feel like we all need to come to terms with the fact that like everybody is struggling and trying to like quantify the amount is like a fool's errand,

Dave Etler00:51

if you want to be more empathetic to your patients, get rid of one of one, a piece of your amygdala.

Welcome back to the short coat podcast. The show that gives you an honest look at medical school, a production of the university of Iowa Carver college of medicine with me today in the SEP studio. It's a passel of a gaggle, a flaw. Oh, works crowd of M one, say hello to a Matt angle. Ken howdy. Sitting next to Matt is Maddy fits you.

Matt Engelken01:25

And then, over there is Tracey Chen. What's up everyone

Dave Etler01:29

and Jacob Lamm. Hello, Jacob, Maddie newbies. Start with you, Maddie. Where are you

Maddy Fitzhugh01:35

from? Yeah, so I'm from Indianola, Iowa. It's a town just south of Des Moines, pretty small. And then I went to college at Loyola in Chicago. Okay. Now when you

Matt Engelken01:48

study it loyal neuroscience.

Alright. Alright.

Dave Etler01:52

And, and, and Jacob, what about you?

Jacob Lam01:55

I'm born from a small city in Iowa called Cedar rapids pretty far from here. And then I went to undergrad here. So.

Dave Etler02:04

And what did you study

Jacob Lam02:05

in biochemistry.

Matt Engelken02:07


Dave Etler02:08

All right. I was hoping for something more. I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for more, more, different, you know, so that you could prove to people that you don't have to have a neuroscience degree or biochemistry degree or whatever to come to med school, but you disappointed me.

You studied smart things. So that's fine. welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming on the show with me. I'm you guys we're approaching the end of your M one year. You've got a few things left to do, but if you were to summarize your M one year, Matt, how would you summarize your M one year putting me on the spot?

Okay. I'm you know, I'm not fooling around Matt.

Matt Engelken02:49

I'd say it's going well. obviously there are some parts of it that are really hard and, not great. I'd say not great. but in general, like I think that there are a lot of positives. I've made a lot of friends in my first year. I feel like my preconception of medical school was that everybody would be like a gunner and like really like, not necessarily cutthroat, but definitely competitive.

And I haven't really felt that at least at our institution, like, I feel like almost everybody here, I could consider a friend or at least a colleague. and it's a really good environment to be in. So like, I know that even on my bad days, I have people that I can lean on and it feels like I can be like supported and helped even if like, I'm struggling in a certain thing.

So yeah, even though sometimes school is hard. It's nice to know that I have that backbone that I can like rely on. What haven't you liked? a lot of school, I feel like, like obviously the expectation is to learn a lot in your first year and I feel like we have done exactly that learned a lot. My main complaint is I feel like some of the things that they want us to learn, I feel like are things that we will end up just Googling when we're doctors.

And so I'm not sure why we need to be tested on it in our first year. so yeah, I feel like sometimes the professors can get like lost in the field rather than like trying to find the big picture. But I also understand that on the flip side, every single way. Blade of grass is important. so it's kind of that hard balance between like disliking that we need to learn everything, but also understanding its importance.

Dave Etler04:25

Yeah. And also, I th I think it's hard for you to maybe know at this point what it is that's important versus what it is that you'll never. But you'll rarely see in clinical practice.

Matt Engelken04:37

Yeah. And a lot of that is just like, there's going to be certain practices that are going to need to know all this stuff that I'm considering like useless right now, which depending on like the specialty that we go into may be useless, but there's going to be those people that go into a specialty that focuses on all the diseases of the Krebs cycle and then every single podcast where we complain about the Krebs cycles.

Going to be like bad to them because they actually need to know this stuff.

Dave Etler05:04

yeah. Yeah. I, you know, when you guys, when listeners, when these guys complain about their, about the things that they're learning, just keep that in mind. If they don't know what they're, they don't know what they're going to need someday.

I don't know,

Matt Engelken05:15

one day we're going to be in residency and they'll be like, remember the coagulation cascade. And we're like, oh, no.

Dave Etler05:20

so let's try this. Let's wrap up your year by asking each other how you would rate different aspects. Of your first year


Matt Engelken05:27

know, what I

Tracy Chen05:28

think is such a big part of every school curriculum, this anatomy. And everyone's freaking out about that over the summer. Like do I study before I'm one year and it's like, don't do it, but how do you guys feel about anatomy, particularly the cranial nerves in general?

Dave Etler05:40

Yes. Rate your rate to rate the cranial


Can you remember from one to 12?

Jacob Lam05:48

Well, so my thoughts about the cranial nerves 10 out of 12, like, I mean, like with anatomy, it's just like repetition for sure. Every time I go to a lecture, I just be like, what the heck just happened? Like for me, it was just, it was very difficult for me, but like, I think just like enough reputation and like actually getting into that anatomy lab was like super helpful and then also helped on the practical exam.

That first one was awful by the way.

Dave Etler06:14

Okay. Anatomy, we've got a, we've got a 10 out of 12 rating. I neglected to. To put some boundaries on the Likert scale. So, you know, whatever, whatever out of whatever you want, that's fair game.

Matt Engelken06:27

I'd say 10 out of 12 is a pretty, pretty decent rating. I think I didn't take anatomy before going here.

So it was all brand new and I will say it's a little overwhelming at the beginning. And I think that it could be, just like the way that our curriculum teaches it, but I feel like it was a very accessible way to teach it. For people that I guess don't know, ours is more of like a, like a body centered way.

So like, we'll focus on different areas of the body rather than like learning all the bones and then all the muscles. Cause at least for me, it's really hard to put it together. If we just like learned all the bones and didn't realize why like there's holes in some of the bones and why some of the bones have like things coming off of them.

But if you learn the muscles and like what's going through them, then it all makes a lot more sense. I appreciated that, like Jacob said, I think anatomy lab was really helpful and our, like teachers and facilitators were really good. so in general, I thought that they presented anatomy in an accessible way.

Jacob Lam07:22

I just wanted to add before we go on, I took anatomy before and undergrad was not helpful.

Dave Etler07:28

Yeah. I think I'll say, yeah. I mean, just to a certain amount of time is always spent catching those people who. Taking anatomy before up in the beginning of, of medical school. I mean, that's the whole reason why we front-load, anatomies, in the curriculum. but, but yeah, maybe in that, so as anatomy TA is the focus of anatomy different in medical school than it is in, in undergrad, in Yorkshire.


Jacob Lam07:52

underground. I was just like, so like surface level that I'm like, I don't even know, like the first day he's talked about like different muscles and I was like, I don't even remember hearing about these at all. Okay.

Dave Etler08:04

All right. w what's what's what's what would you ask somebody to rate

Matt Engelken08:08


Maddy Fitzhugh08:10

I mean, we can just throw it back to the Krebs cycle. How would you all rate. Learning the Krebs cycle for like maybe the 50th time in our lives.

Tracy Chen08:19

It just seems like I will write a three out of five. It just seems like every, first of all, we learned it in like for me back in high school, a little bit in like middle school and then high school again, then undergrad, couple of times in here since like every time they just add on more layers and layers of this onion and you're like, please stop.

I don't want

Traci Chen08:38

to hold this onion anymore. Yeah.

Maddy Fitzhugh08:42

Something med school I think has really taught me, is that like, especially this semester, now that we're returning to things that we learned last semester, it's crazy that like, I just forgot like everything and it's like, I'm learning it for the first time all over again.

Matt Engelken08:59

Yeah. I feel like that will continue. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say one thing, one positive thing about the Krebs cycle is. It helps us all live. It does help us all live pretty positive, but it comes back a lot. Obviously it's, you know, how we generate energy. but something that like you don't learn on a surface level, but you learn further down is like every single part of the Krebs cycle can be.

Shunted to other things or other things can come into it. And so honestly, like the coolest part about the Krebs cycle isn't necessarily the general Krebs cycle, but it's like if the body is trying to like build itself up, it will shut things away from the Krebs cycle to turn it into fat. And if it's just trying to gain energy, then it'll bring fats and proteins into the Kreb cycle to turn it into.

And stuff like that I found was like really cool. And it's not just like, Ooh, sugar turns into energy. It's like actually how the body will adapt to like different circumstances and different needs. and I found that to be like really cool that every single part of. Cycle and basically everything in biochemistry, like don't get me wrong.

Biochemistry is a lot. but I find it really cool that every single like side product and every single intermediate step has a bigger use for different reactions. And it all kind of comes together and a beautiful symphony that I don't like learning.

Maddy Fitzhugh10:19

So like 4.6

Matt Engelken10:22

out of five. Yeah, somewhere around, maybe like a 4.2.

I'd say learning. It was still hard, but like looking at it after it's learned, becomes more beautiful than actually learning it.

Dave Etler10:37

How would you rate, I assume that our beloved biochemistry professor Pete Rubinstein saying. Did he sing

Matt Engelken10:47

you a song? He

Tracy Chen10:48

didn't get to see him this time. I was really sad.

We know the urea cycle song. We should get him to sing it. We're trying to get him to sing for Carver's got talent. He said next year. So I'm going to hold you to that promise Dr. Rubinstein. I hope you're listening to everyone as we been recorded.

Dave Etler11:05

Oh, that's too bad. okay. Anything else you w what, what else should we, should we rate about medical school?

Tracy Chen11:11

What about the people in general? How do you guys feel about your colleagues, your one food we'll start with Bella

Maddy Fitzhugh11:20

no, I feel like, at least for me, everyone's a lot more social and just like, I guess, normal, that sounds kind of bad, but everything is just like really cool and interesting. And like, yeah, I've, I've made a lot of friends here and I think I just.

I enjoy medical school as a whole, a lot more than I thought I was going to, which was really good.

Dave Etler11:41

They're just normal guys are just normal people. Nice.

Jacob Lam11:46

I would say it's a lot more friendly than like undergrad where like, there's just so many people. It's like hard to like connect with people, but like here, it feels a lot more like.

Friendly community. And like there's a lot more people you say hi to and the hallways and stuff.

Dave Etler12:01

Do you think some of that is, you know, like my memories of undergrad are a bit hazy for a few reasons. but do you, do you think part of that is because, you know, an undergrad, you're all kind of doing different things.

Everybody, you know, is probably doing different things. You like you're, you know, hanging out with, you know, engineers and English majors and all this kind of stuff. You know, you're all, you're all doing these different things, but then med school, you're all sharing the same, adventure, I guess you could call it charitably.

do you think that's part of why there's a deeper connection?

Jacob Lam12:30

I think for sure. Just like struggling together.

Tracy Chen12:33

Yeah. I think when you have, when you're crying and having a mental breakdown together, you just, it's a bond that forms between.

Dave Etler12:43

That we could provide,

Traci Chen12:44

provide that for your traits.

Dave Etler12:46

how about your, how would you rate your leisure time, Matt? You, you mentioned playing video games

Matt Engelken12:50

before the show. I do like playing video games. I feel like, well, I think there's no such thing as wanting, like not wanting leisure time. I feel like I could obviously have more, I think one struggle that I have is that in our curriculum, we have lectures bef like for the next exam, before we take the previous exam.

So like Fridays on Saturdays for me are almost always just like, I'm going to do nothing type of days, but it's hard to have in like the back of my mind, I have like six lectures to watch. and so I find. It's not quite as leisurely as I would. Like that being said. I feel like I do find a lot of times to just like, hang out with friends or.

like be able to study with friends and like study, and then we can take a break and like talk or play like a card game or something. so like trying to incorporate leisure time into studying, but then also just like realizing that one of like the side effects of being in medical school is that we're always going to be stressed about something I'm pretty excited for the summer because.

I'm not sure about you guys, but I'm not studying for step one. So I will have really nothing to worry about. And so my leisure times can actually be leisurely. but yeah, just like taking the times where we can like, hang out with our friends or play video games or watch Netflix and like understanding that we are putting aside our studying to do this.

And like, knowing that it's going to be in the back of her head, but just like accepting that we need our own time to be like, human is. I've been able to kind of come to terms with better than an undergrad.

Tracy Chen14:27

I totally agree. I mean, I've never baked before in the past by picked up baking here in medical school and it's been really nice and just bake for like small groups, small lectures, anything like that?

Just keeps you saying,

Jacob Lam14:38

yeah, I'd agree. Like I set aside like an hour of my each day just to play video games or whatever, just like. Not study all the time and just like have a time to relax. And like, you have to find that balance for yourself.

Maddy Fitzhugh14:52

Yeah. I think in the beginning it was definitely a lot harder because, I feel like in undergrad, you're able to get to all of the things on your to-do list.

Whereas here there's always more that you can do. And so I think for a while it took me time to like, learn how to just like put things down and like go enjoy my time and.

Dave Etler15:13

You could do as much as you want. Really. I mean, obviously there's a minimum, I suppose, but like you could just keep piling it on.

There's always something to do, whether it's, you know, getting involved in extracurricular activities or studying more or all this kind of speaking of extracurricular active. Did you do any extracurricular activities aside from the podcast?

Jacob Lam15:34

Melissa. I didn't even do the podcast till now, but like I got involved, I got involved in some like, volunteering, like with mobile clinic.

Cause it was like a really good opportunity to like actually use what we're learning and like with real patients before like getting into clinicals and I did a part of some other organizations like diversity and just like coasting fun activities and speaker events and stuff like that.

Maddy Fitzhugh16:00

I did mobile clinic too, a couple of times, which was really fun. And then I also volunteered at something called upstream clinic. yeah, so it's, a clinic in the, high-risk OB, clinic and UHC. And basically we just, All the patients get like a survey and they can, indicate whether they feel like they have like transportation insecurity or like food insecurity, things like that.

And then we, print off resources that are like county specific to where they live. And then, just go in, have a chat and give them some resources. So that's really awesome.

Matt Engelken16:32

I get, I get involved in leadership for the community, I guess. So I'm one of the co-chairs of flocks and that's been really fun to be able to like, put together events and like supervise other things.

And last month we put on a 5k called doc dash, which was really fun to work with. And I'm really excited for next year to be able to like create a warm and welcoming environment for the incoming . I know we've all talked about like feeling welcome and secure here. And one of my major goals for the fall is to make sure that next year's incoming class feels the same way that we all do.

Dave Etler17:09

Nice. I like it.

Tracy Chen17:12

Yeah, I've done a lot. I've also done a little bit mobile clinic and upstream clinic. I think something that I'm looking forward to doing naturally in the fall and starting a little bit over the summer is like we have an annual bench press.

Dave Etler17:22

or the domestic violence intervention program is the beneficiary of that fundraiser,

Tracy Chen17:28


Yeah. We actually raised a thousand dollars for them this spring and hopefully raising a lot more in the fall. Everyone should join, get pumped. And then we'll see if the orthopedics department wins first again, as always, you're all at you made a really good attempt, but I think this is really fun to like plan and like work with everyone as a team and just meet like many, many great

Traci Chen17:46


Dave Etler17:47

How would you rate your anxiety level?

Maddy Fitzhugh17:49

I feel like out of five, right?

Matt Engelken17:52


Dave Etler17:52

yeah, sure. Whatever rating you like, do five.

Maddy Fitzhugh17:57

Probably like, I mean, in the beginning before the first test, I really don't think I've been more nervous in my entire life. so that was like solid five out of five before the first exam. Like more than the M cat.

I don't know why I was so stressed. I think it's just like, you know, we've all worked so hard to get here. And so being here and having our first test, I just was like super overwhelmed, but now I feel like probably like a two or one.

Matt Engelken18:22


I'd say one thing that I noticed.

I got put on medication this year. so we love, we love therapy here. We love treating mental health here. but one thing that I noticed is that, I kind of agree where the tests have gotten less like anxiety riddled, but just like the stress and the amount of work that you have to do in medical school can definitely lead to like, like high anxiety levels just in general or like burnout, things like that.

And so one thing that I really appreciated that. like SeaComm is that we have a in-house like counseling center. and so it's nice to have those kind of like forward thinking. Like people to help us before, like we need to, or like to have it really accessible. And for us it's free, which is really nice.

We don't even have to becomes a crisis. and so it's nice to have that backbone of support. but that being said, I think that there's like a lot that can overload somebody, just like, like we said, not having enough time for leisure. always like worrying about things that we could be doing can definitely lead.

Anxiety producing situations, not necessarily like being anxious over tasks, but just about being anxious in general, sometimes

Dave Etler19:29

anybody else have any anxiety, thoughts they want to share?

Tracy Chen19:32

I think everybody probably has a lot of anxiety for me right now. It's been like a two out of five because we're so close and then semester, but I definitely agree that coming in two months, I was also having like some health-related issues, to the point where like, they're like, okay, we're gonna send you for an MRI of the brain.

And that came back normal. Like your district. Well, thanks.

Dave Etler19:54

I love that. That's a great diagnosis. Cause we like, it's like here, you're just stressed. Oh, just stressed. Okay. You need to fix your stress.

Matt Engelken20:03

I know my dentist was like, you're grinding your teeth. And one of the ways you can like stop grinding your teeth is to be less stressed, but.

Also you're in medical school. So that's not going to happen. Just get you a bike card. Let

Dave Etler20:15

me get right on that. Okay.

Tracy Chen20:17

My primary care physician was like, yeah, it's not going to get any better

but it did get better. Good exercise planning out things a little bit better, but yeah, baking. So delicious, not so good for maybe physical health, but we're getting

Maddy Fitzhugh20:33

there. I appreciate that you bring your things into McCowen and share them there.

Tracy Chen20:38

A lot of that goes to my friend, Betty, I'm going to give a shout out cause she's my baking teacher.

Dave Etler20:57

What about sleep? The importance of sleep is as well known. Do you guys get enough

Traci Chen21:03

sleep? No.

Jacob Lam21:04

for me, I try to get like seven, but I don't fall asleep very fast. So usually getting into that, but like my body just kind of gotten used to it.

Dave Etler21:16

I've read that that's not a thing.

You do, do you, why, why, why do you have trouble sleeping? Just because you don't, is it because you have, is it because you don't have good sleep hygiene or is it because you can't shut off your brain? at night

Jacob Lam21:33

I'd probably say it's both, like, I know, like I go to bed, get in bed at 12 and wake up at seven.

So like, obviously, like you're cutting it real close already. And then I just can't like fall asleep once I'm like laying down. You know that phenomenon where you're like, oh, you're so tired. And then you try to sleep. And then you're like wide awake. It's kind of me. Yeah.

Tracy Chen21:53

I feel like I have a, just a little bit opposite as Jacob. I also get around like seven, seven and a half, but I make sure that once the clock hits 11, I'm like, all right, it's time for me to like go to bed, but up good routine. And my body knows it's time to sleep, but I fall asleep like ridiculously quickly.

Traci Chen22:08


Dave Etler22:09

I'm Joe, I'm more like you,

Jacob Lam22:10

Jacob and jealous.

Matt Engelken22:13

Yeah, I do a really bad, I do a really bad job of forcing myself to go to bed. Like if I'm doing something I'm like, I can keep going. And so there's some nights that just become late nights. Cause I'm like, I can't stop. I have to do these things. that being said, I think.

Kind of gaming the system too. Like obviously we have classes that we need to go to, but lectures, you can watch after the fact. So if I go to bed late, just to be like, not going to set an alarm, I'm going to wake up at like, you know, noon and then figure out the consequences later of like having to watch lectures, like after dinner.

I mean, that being said, I always study after dinner, but like to kind of push the the night, but make sure that. There are nights that I know I can sleep in and slight way. I'm not like perpetually exhausted. That being said, I am perpetually tired, but I think that's more of just like a side effect of medical school.

Maddy Fitzhugh23:07

Yeah. I am also one that does not watch lectures live. So, I don't know. Sleep is like the one thing that I am not willing to like budge on. And so I get like nine hours probably every day, just cause like, Quite literally can't function if I dealt. So, and I'm like super cranky and mean,

Matt Engelken23:27


Dave Etler23:27

I'm very, I'm pretty, I've always had trouble sleeping, but yeah, I've definitely, as I've gotten older, I'm, it's pretty much the worst.

but I I've discovered in recent years sleep podcasts, which is, I always like to point out as an amazing concept because you know, here's Dave, the podcaster trying to come up with something interesting to say. And then there's this whole group of people who just want to be boring. And there they've probably got more listeners because nobody can

Traci Chen23:56


Dave Etler23:57

So what's your best memory of this year?

Jacob Lam24:01

I don't really think can think of like one, but I just like the memories I've made with like the new friends that I've made over the course of this year. It has been, it's definitely been a change in me. Like I've definitely grown up since coming here and like, just like making new memories for me. Nice.

Traci Chen24:20

I will say

Tracy Chen24:21

my most recent one. So a lot of great memories here made in that school is that, my housemates were all watching the show. So I wanted to wait until like the parts, spoiler alert, but there's twins and there's like a flood of blood coming. So I quietly went there. I covered my face with my hair and then went to go scare them.

That was great. And then I went on with my day and

Matt Engelken24:38

studied. How dare you spoil a movie? That's like 42 years old. let me see. I think so my friend group hosted. we watched the bachelor every week. Well, we can do a joint one then. And I think my, my favorite memory was in the most recent season. So this is only going to be important for people that have already watched the bachelor is the least.

Was horrible addressing himself. He was not good. and one of the things that we all picked out is that he would wear blazers with just about anything. And I think a couple of times he wore them with hoodies or like quarter zips stuff that just doesn't go with blazers. And so for the finale, it is a look.

And so for like the last time we did it for the air, every person showed up wearing just like a horrible conglomeration of clothes. And it was a lot of fun.

Maddy Fitzhugh25:32

We took a group picture and it was, they were very cute, but you know, that was going to be mine too. it was just nice, because it's every single week.

And so you had that set time that you just were like putting away all of your stuff and like spending time with friends and people would bring food and stuff. So that was something. Something to always look forward to, plus it was always on Monday or Tuesday and like those days are like not fun anyways.

So it just made them a lot better.

Dave Etler26:00

Yeah. Worst memory.

Traci Chen26:01


Tracy Chen26:01

wasp that came into my room the other day. Yeah. The only thing about Iowa city besides the weather I'm from California. So I'm used to hot weather, but it's dry and there's a lot less bugs, but here in Iowa, there's so many bugs and they came in through my screen. And I am terrified of anything that's scenes.

So that'd be the worst memory of me just screaming. There's a loss. And then people mean like someone's screaming the house.

Matt Engelken26:28

I live

Tracy Chen26:28

in a house full of 20 other people. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's a big co-housing virus, mega six AF viral Sigma,

Matt Engelken26:35

putting it out there. Okay.

Dave Etler26:37

Worst memory.

Maddy Fitzhugh26:40

So mine is related to my sweet little dog.

Naoki she's a quirky. I do. Yes.

Matt Engelken26:46

she's pretty loud,

Maddy Fitzhugh26:47


Traci Chen26:48


Maddy Fitzhugh26:49

she's good. Okay. Yeah. So, towards the beginning of the year, she got sick and she had really bad diarrhea. And so I was, it was just all over my whole apartment. And, I ended up like stepping in it while I was trying to clean it up.

And then that made it worse. And then. I, you know, clean it all up and flushed it in the toilet. And then my toilet got clogged and started the water started overflowing into my entire floor of my bathroom and I just started crying. So that was probably my

Traci Chen27:21

worst one. God damn pets, or just

Dave Etler27:23

the grossest. We love them so much, but their Dick pets.

They're just disgusting.

Traci Chen27:28

Yeah. Having a dog.

Maddy Fitzhugh27:29

It's just like having a toddler just forever, but you know, she's, she's lovely. Matt actually met her for the first

Matt Engelken27:36

time. It was really exciting. Yeah. She scared my cats, but that's okay. Worth it. I don't know if this is the worst memory, but it's the one that creates the best story.

and so I. Huge Iowa sports fan. I'll put it on record. I've had season tickets to the football game since I was seven. And so I still keep that up. That's like, we all say that we have something that we're not willing to give up. And for me, it's, I'm not willing to give up going to sporting events.

All right. and so it was the, it was the Iowa Purdue game and I w like the night before I was starting to feel kind of gross. But I was like, whatever, it's probably just a cold and it kept getting worse. And so like before the game, I went to quick care to be like, I'm not feeling well. And they're like, well, we'll just put you on antibiotics, whatever.

Like, I don't know what's wrong with you. And I was like, okay. but anyways, I get to the game super early. I, me and my friends always sit in the front row. So I'm at the game super early in line. I get pink. And I'm like, this sucks, but I'm like, I can't leave. Let's like I have to go to the football game.

So I go to the football game and we're garbage. We play so bad. We're like at this point, we're number two in the country. And we look awful against Purdue. And so I'm like, I'm sick. I'm like trying not to touch anything because I'm also contagious. Luckily I didn't hear of anybody that got pink eye afterwards, so hopefully I didn't spread it, but don't listen to the future doctor going to a football game with pink eye.

But, yeah, so I go to this game just feeling like absolute garbage, and then we lose. And so then I just go home and I just feel like trash, but there's my story.

Dave Etler29:23

Sad sad memory.

Jacob Lam29:25

there's not really one that really sticks out. I mean, it's just like, for me, it's like, there's some days that are just hard, you know?

And you just like, you're tired of studying. You're just like, You just want to cry, but boys don't cry, right? No,

Matt Engelken29:41


Jacob Lam29:43

I don't know. But they just, those days that you're just not feeling it and then you just gotta kind of push through or like

Dave Etler29:49

yeah, for sure.

Matt Engelken29:51

Yeah. I think like the worst days are the kind of days where like, if somebody were to ask you what you do.

You'd say like nothing or like I watched one lecture in eight hours and I was like, well, what'd you do during the rest of it? And you're like, I don't know. so it's like the days where like your free time, isn't productive, free time. It's just like a waste of time or almost the worst in my opinion.


Dave Etler30:16

free time. That's okay. I give you permission. Well,

Matt Engelken30:18

I mean, productive, free time, as in like doing something. Better as you like productive as in like video games or productive for my mental health or going on a walk is productive for like clearing my brain or like physical activity. But there are some days that just like, don't feel like they're productive in any sorts of way, just days where you kind of like mess around on your phone and just don't feel like don't feel like you use your free time to like better yourself.

It just feels like you're just as stressed as you were before and you didn't do

Dave Etler30:47

anything. Yeah. Well,

Matt Engelken30:49

sorry for hijacking UJ. No, I completely

Jacob Lam30:51

agree. Like I have those days where it's like, there's a difference between like spending two hours, like I'm going to play video games for two hours versus like, oh, I only got one lecture done in three hours and two hours.

Like I didn't.

Traci Chen31:05


Dave Etler31:21

Well, all right. I'm glad you've made it through, your first. some people say it's the harder

Matt Engelken31:27


Maddy Fitzhugh31:28

after frolics. I think quarrier sounds slightly terrifying, but

Matt Engelken31:34

I mean,

Dave Etler31:35

but I think a lot of people go into that core year and it's, it's such a, it's, it's a good change of pace, you know, like you're doing some.

Fundamentally different than what you've just spent the last, you know, 18 months in our case. I'm doing so

Matt Engelken31:53

I feel like every, every year, like wants to be the hardest. it's not like an everybody kind of. But the amount of times this year, that I've been, that I've been told, like you think foundations is hard waiting until MD/PhD one and then like you think MD/PhD one is hard.

Wait until MD/PhD too. And then like, wait until Keystone and wait until quarrier and you're sort of building up your tolerance. Exactly. But I feel like almost everybody like wants to say that what they're going through right now is harder than what other people are going. Yeah. And to like, just recognize that everything we do is hard and yeah, things are hard, but we also grow and like some things are harder for other people is something that.

I feel like we all need to come to terms with the fact that like everybody is struggling and trying to like quantify the amount of struggling we're going through is like a fool's errand, super helpful.

Tracy Chen32:49

I mean, I'm looking forward to like Korea cause we get to actually talk to people and then like help out as much as we can.

As baby med students can,

Jacob Lam32:57

I will say like, I've worked with like some like third years at like mobile clinic, for example. And like the difference in like our skills is like completely, like, I'm just like fumbling through the history and then they're like, exactly know what to ask. And I'm like, that'll be mean two years.

Question mark.

Dave Etler33:13

well good. Like I said, I'm glad you, I'm glad you guys, I'm glad you guys made it this far. It's going to be, things will continue. It'll be great. I don't know what I'm talking about. Our sponsor for this episode is panacea finance. It's the national bank for doctors, by doctors as a doctor, the average bank isn't built for the medical student community, but a pan of C a financial, they get it because they've lived it, as a bank founded by two med paeds physicians, they are dedicated to providing solutions for the unique needs of doctors and doctors in training like you guys, including their PRN personal loan.

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