Why Empath stay with the Narcissist
By Raven Scott
July 27, 2022
0:00 / 30:22
Raven Scott00:03

This is your next step to defeating the narcissist. learn how to master your boundaries, How to release responsibility for another's emotional response. How to feel the power of your self sovereignty, free yourself from narcissistic abuse. and draw long lasting powerful boundaries Get your free workshop now at Raven scott.show/free-workshop

Welcome to the empath and the narcissist podcast. Where you regain your sparkle back after narcissistic abuse. I am your host, Raven, Scott. And I welcome you here. To the show. If you are new and are enjoying this podcast. Help me help others. Rate and review. Take a screenshot and DME At Raven Scott show on Instagram. for a free human design reading.

To answer your pressing question. About the root cause. Your future. And external forces that influence you.

This week on the podcast. I have a dear friend Anna C Jones. Last year, we went live talking about external validation. Is it needed or why do so much? So many of us, , Lean on external validation. And just recently she. Said, Hey, like I just, I didn't know. You talked about narcissism. I just experienced a horrible.

Relationship. I just broke up with them and she wanted to share her story. Story. Anna is on a mission to inspire as many women as possible to live a life. That has personal meaning. Anna is an emotional awakening coach who works closely with women to remind them of their power. To step back into their worth and encourage living an unapologetic life. And she has been doing this.

For quite some time.

This just goes to show that this happens to the best of us. But you don't need to let it get you down. And so when she experienced. This narcissist. She had really beautiful phrases. And, um, Things to reflect. Back towards him. That I think a lot of us might have been afraid to say, so it's a really great to gain her perspective on how she experienced it. Um, What she said. Said and how her response.

Was, um, and we talk about. Why she stayed so long and you can find Ana and Instagram at. A N a Ana C Jones. And all her links to her website and instagram are in the show notes below So let's get into the conversation.

Raven Scott02:54

Welcome back I have with me, Anna, see Jones. Uh, we're we've known each other for a little while and, um, done a, a live or so, so thank you so much for being here.

Ana Jones03:07

Thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to be back here. And a lot of things have shifted since the last time that we chatted.

So it'll be, it'll be interesting to see how things have shifted.

Raven Scott03:18

Yeah, absolutely gaining clarity and mastering. Um, for me on my end, at least what I'm focusing on and what I'm here to share with the. So, um, I wanted to, before we dive into how to spot a narcissist, this is what we're talking about today and why can't you leave?

Um, you had reached out and said, oh my gosh, you talk about narcissists. Didn't even know that, like I have a personal experience. So can you relate to the audience and share with us as much as you can while still being safe? Uh, your experience.

Ana Jones03:53

Yeah, thank you so much for, for saying that because it is important for us to feel safe in our experience.

So I don't even know if I've heard. I probably had heard some derivative of the word narcissist, but I'd never really thought that I had experienced and I I've had an experience with a narcissist and fortunately I was only there for eight. And it was, it was really interesting cuz I kind of got tricked into being in this relationship with this person because when we first met.

He went on a trip and I don't wanna give too much specifics because if, you know, if somebody comes across this, they might know him and, and, you know, it's, it's like everybody has their journey and, you know, I'm, I'm glad that I'm not with this person anymore and, and all that good stuff, but I still don't want to affect their journeys and their lives and whatnot.

So, yeah. Um, you know, this person was on a, like a month long trip and it was overseas and. It was just really lovely, you know, very, he was funny. He was friendly and very, just like outgoing and was very like, um, I like territorial men. I'm very primal in that way. Kind of like piss on me and make me yours.

And then , we'll see each other later. I'm very, very much like that. Um, And so he was doing that and I, and I thought this is great. Like, this guy is like texting me, we're con we're talking. We're like all the things. But then when he came back from that trip, something shifted, or I, I used the air quotes because nothing had really shifted.

I was just seeing who he actually was. And I was just. I didn't. I, I was so confused. I was, I was confused the majority of the time that we were together because I was. Didn't we just have this conversation, like, didn't I just say this didn't didn't like I said, or I said everything, but this, it was so weird.

It was like, it was like a mind. Fuck. It really was just like, I could not understand what was going on and if I can't curse on your, on your show, you can definitely call me out and

Raven Scott07:01

be like, no, it's fine. It's an explicit show. It's fine. Go


Ana Jones07:04

it. OK, cool. Cool, cool. That's what I thought. It was really interesting because I had never read or heard or investigated or researched anything about a narcissist until a friend of mine was like, he sounds like a narcissist.

And so when you're in a relationship with the person, you, you want people to think of them in a nice. . And so I didn't really confirm the fact that he was, but he absolutely was. And I then started going down this rabbit hole of investigation and of just finding things out, because once you tap into this world, that's like gas lighting and all of these things.

And I was like, oh my gosh, like I experienced this and it was so. It was just so crazy to me, for lack of a better word to, to have experienced all of this. And I knew that I was not insane. I knew that what I, I knew what I was saying. And then when I heard him be like, you didn't say that you said this and this and this.

I was like, uh, no, I'm pretty sure that this is not what I said. They are so confident and they say things with so much confidence. If your confidence is not sturdy and super strong, which if you're, if you're with an narcissist, your confidence is not there. Your self-worth is like, you know, who, who fricking knows where, where it is.

So I was so desperate in that time in my life, I was so desperate to be loved or to feel loved what I thought was love. That I was willing to, to go through all of that. Mm. And, you know, we traveled, he was very like, here, I'll give you the world, but if I didn't answer his text, if I didn't answer his call, it was like a show.

It was like, oh man, I'm glad you're not, part of the firefighter department because I would've been here. I would've already died and stuff like that. And I'm like, I'm working, bro. like, I'm not just, it's just not a all here. You know? Like, Yeah. And even if I did just wanna lay on the couch and not answer your texts, like I can do that too.

I don't have to be on for you 24 7. So that in a nutshell was, was my experience. And, you know, I think it really has. I think that this experience along with many, many others in my life have led me to what I do now, which is develop a program for women to remember who they are and tap into their worth and be unapologetic about what they want.

It's so interesting because. It's not until you look back that you're like, wow, I had to go through these things to actually be able to help women that are in these spaces so they can, so they can truly just come back into their worth and realize that. You don't have to be in a relationship with anyone it's it's that there's so many, uh, attachment styles that we have.

Right. Um, I know mine was anxious if you haven't, if people that are listening to this, if you don't know anything about attachment styles, I recommend that you look into that because you, that way, you know, Why you have the relationships that you have and how you end up with people end up or how you subconsciously choose these relationships that you're in.

Because we it's no coincidence. It's not, it's not like, oh, it just happened. We, we brought them into our reality for a reason. Yeah.

Raven Scott10:35

I was gonna, uh, tap into that. Talk to you more about, okay. So there was this still like you, every time I talk to you, you are very strong. You're confident you're helping women, but still, this is why it's okay.

And we're all in good company. You're not a bad person because you have more self worth to work on. Uh, there's so much in our lives and ancestral and the environment and the culture that contributes to all that. It's almost like experiencing that relationship with a narcissist is bootcamp. And it's a kick in the butt of like, okay, here's the flashlight.

Here's where you have some holes that I've heard, like energy leaking and then you're attracting them magnetically.

, Natasha Von. Salza just spoke to us about that. Back in May in episode 51, Narcissist, we're a conduit for spiritual growth.

Raven Scott11:27

if you're not willing to work on your shadow work, or maybe haven't had certain shadow work revealed to you, then when you do get, , involved with a narcissist, it's like having someone on the.

Uh, magnifying that shadow that you've gotta work on.

Ana Jones11:42

Yeah, for sure. And I remember my mom telling me, Anna, if you're in a toxic relationship, you are toxic too. So it's not that it's, it wasn't just him. This is the thing that we still try to like push blame and say, oh, it was him or it was her, or it was whatever gender they, they consider.

Right. Yeah. And. I really think there has to come a time where we, where we are responsible for the we've encountered in our lives and not beat ourselves up for it. You know, I'm, I'm so glad that I was only there for eight months. Like I've talked to people and they're like, Anna, I wish I would've had eight months.

I had eight years or I was there for three years or I was there for, you know, a whole freaking decade. So I'm grateful. yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Exactly. Or decades. Yeah. And I'm, I'm really grateful for the experience. It might sound a little twisted and perhaps a little dark, but thanks to him. I, I know what it's like, and I know the, the red flags to look out for, because it's not the same.

Yeah. As if, you know, if I asked you like, Hey Raven, what are the red flags for a narcissist? And you can list them and you be like, oh, it's this and this and this and this and this versus me actually going through the experience. Having it firsthand. I think that was just like, wow. Like I had never been in a more confused state in my life, I don't think.

And, and to really when you experience it or at least when I experience things, and then I, I get back into that feeling of confusion, of lost, of, of desperation. I'm like, oh, I've been here before. And I don't like the way this. I don't like the way I feel and I don't the way every, all of these, all of these things make me feel so I can catch myself and say, no, this, this is a red flag.

This is not where I'm supposed to be. And then I can shift and pivot. I love the idea

Raven Scott13:42

of tapping into how you feel as a red flag. Cuz so many of us are sharing red flags that they're doing, but how do they make you feel? I love that. Like I'm feeling anxious, I'm feeling confused. Like what are you experiencing?

And those are red flags. Yeah.

Ana Jones13:59

Yes. And, and our, our feeling, our emotions, our feelings, they can serve as like a barometer of how we are. And if it's, if it's your nervous system, because you are, you know, you're getting everything you've ever wanted or it's something amazing happening, like that's, that's one thing.

Right. We need to regulate it and then just tell it like a everything's. Okay. You've got this. Keep moving forward versus. You are in this abusive relationship, you are constantly being the victim over and over and over again, but there's always something that we are getting out of any relationship. And when I decided to break up with him, which was just detrimental to him.

Yeah. Narcissist are like, You cannot leave me. Right? How dare you leave me. And that was a shock for him. And it was really interesting because he really wanted me back and he was like, Anna, like what about all our goals? What about all our plans? And I was so honest with him. I was like, I would rather take the risk of starting over with someone, than to continue.

With what I have with you. Yeah. Like I was so honest with him and I, I was so over, just walking on eggshells and I was done with all of that shit. So I mean, I remember the, the place where, you know, he reached out to me and I was like, Hey, I'm actually on my way to a date. And he's like, okay, so it's over.

And I was like, yeah, it's been over since, uh, since January it's April I did tell him something very strong and I don't know if, if it served him or not, but I, I didn't do it for his education. I did it for my sake and I told him, you know what, you're, you're an abusive person.

And, and he was like, wow, that is, that is a very strong comment. Like that's, you know, like that's a, and I was like, yeah, very diminishing mm-hmm . Yeah. And then I told him, yeah, but it's also true. And I do have to say in order for there to be an abuser, there has to be someone who's willing to be abused and I'm taking that responsibility.

You could not have abused me if I wasn't there to. Just like abuse me. Right? Mm-hmm . Yeah. And to some people, if you're hearing this and this is triggering you, it's true. Nothing, you know, you talk a lot about boundaries and everything. Raven. It's like, if we have really solid and sturdy boundaries, there's no way.

There's no way that a narcissist is gonna enter into our lives. Yeah. Because we won't allow it.

Raven Scott16:37

Right. Yeah. It's immediate. Cutting that out, ignoring the text, not going any further on that next date or that next commitment or goal in that relationship. Yeah. Yeah. So before we, we have to go. I wanted to ask you, you were there eight months, which for some of us seems like, oh, what infant stage are so lucky and you do feel lucky, but still eight months is almost a whole year.

So that sucks too. I wanna validate you that. Yes, that took some time. And in those eight months, um, you said when he came back, which was fairly new in the beginning of the relationship, things shifted and you start to see something. So why did you stay the rest of the time when you started to see things shift?

Ana Jones17:23

You know, I really think that there used to be not anymore. Not anymore, not as much there used to be this part of me that would always be like, oh, but.

When I was in the relationship, I was just like very hopeful. I was very hopeful of everything. Going back to the way it was going back to the beginning. And, you know, because at the beginning it was fun and I love to have fun. I'm a very fun woman. And I, I was like, am I giving up too soon?

So I gave it a shot. I gave it a shot. I gave it a shot and we traveled. And when it was good, it was fun. But there would always be this. Timeframe of how fun it was gonna be. And , I felt like we, only had this like time, like this is the allowance, you know, like this is how much fun you're allowed to have in this relationship.

And then like he would make a comment and criticize me or demand something of me or just. Make a comment that I was like, why would you even say that? Uh, you know, I, I had an accident on a trip that we had and I couldn't move my legs. I was, it was bad. Like it was so bad and yeah, he like patched me up and everything and all these things.

But then when he would, like, I was in bed and he would like, sit next to me, I would get scared because my leg was in so much pain. And so he was. Why are you doing that to me? I was like, I was waking up and I was like, what, what are you talking about? I am laying down scraped, bruised, like EV all, like my knees are like, just like a, like every, I was, I couldn't move.

I was in so much physical pain and anguish, and I was. You cannot be fucking serious right now. Like, are you really going to make me feel bad about, or are you wanting to like turn this around? And that's the thing about narcissist? They, they can't, it's very hard. It's really interesting though, because they seem very empathetic with others, but when you're in a relationship with them, they don't really have any empathy with you.

That's what I, I, I. I thought that experience that I had with him was amusing. And I was just blown away because he was loved by everyone. He was the life of the party. Everyone, everybody wanted to be to hang out with him. Oh my God, he's such a great guy. I'm so glad you're with him, blah, blah, blah. But then I was like, he's actually a fucking monster.

Like he. Not pleasant to date. He, you know, like, I mean the sex wasn't even that great. , it's robotic,

Raven Scott20:22

right? Yeah. It's not, it's not like you're actually connecting.

Ana Jones20:26

Yeah. Yeah. It was weird. And then a part of me was like, is he gay? Like, I don't know. There was just like so many things, Carl. It was, it was definite.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I really, I really think that. You know, it, it was an experience that I had to have. Not that I recommend that anyone goes through this, if you are already listening to this and you have enough information. Yeah. But to really connect with yourself and to really say this is off, this isn't feel right.

Raven Scott20:58

Yeah. The feeling I always talk about that listen to your, your body knows. So your brain can justify like, oh, well maybe he's doing this cuz he's really tired. Or you know, that whole projection, like, why are you doing this to me? Is like he can't understand or have any comprehension. Everything's all about them.

So your pain is now like somehow the projection is he typically probably fakes stuff or fakes ailments, or when he's really ill or what, whatever to make someone else feel guilty. And so that was almost like a huge , secret reveal. Like, Hey, I don't actually care about anybody. And I use all of this tactic.

So it's like, he thought you were using that tactic on him, but you literally physically. If any other sane person saw you, they would not react that way. They would be like, oh my gosh, can I get you some medicine? Can I get you a hot towel? How can I help you? Not why are you doing this to me? Yeah.

Ana Jones21:55


Yeah. And I think like, like you were saying it, it was a bit of, oh, let me take care of you to fill this part of my ego. Like I'm such a good person. Yeah. But then after a while, it's like, what about me? And. I mean there, I've heard of some people that are out there that know that they are narcissists and they're like, Hey, I'm aware that I'm a narcissist and I'm actually doing the best that I can to reverse this, but I haven't heard of any success stories of anyone reversing.

I. I mean, I I'm one of those internal optimistic people that, you know, if, if you really want something, I think that you can achieve it. And if you are aware that you are a narcissist, I mean, you're already like,

Raven Scott22:40

, you're already succeeding just saying that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Cause

Ana Jones22:45

they, yeah, exactly. So. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know if he, if he ever took into account, if he ever was like, whoa, yeah, I am abusive.

Or if he just went on his way and just, you know, is still living his life this way. I don't really bother to keep up with his life. I wish him the best. Uh, but yeah, it's, it's definitely something that I will never forget. And in the, in the best way, because now I've turned it into a learning experie.

Raven Scott23:17

mm-hmm that's so beautiful. Mm-hmm thank you for sharing your story and being vulnerable with us and just really making the listeners not feel alone because we all have experienced this. The, the theme of the word always is crazy. It's always that the, what, that's the best word that you can really.

Crazed is, is a word

Ana Jones23:40

. Yeah. And, and the beauty, I think that the reason why some of us feel very isolated is because we don't speak up and we don't share what we've been through. We don't talk about these things. And I, I love that you're doing this because I'm pretty sure that a lot of people, as they listen to this will be like, holy shit, I've been with our narcissist or.

If there's somebody who's really aware, they might be like, oh my gosh, I'm an narcissist, whatever. Right. So, so I, I really, I really think that it's important for us to tell our stories. I think that we need to stop making coaches, you know, people who are considered experts or professionals in their field, you know, gurus.

Because we've all gone through so much shit and it's, I mean, you can call it shit and you can call it transformation. You can call it whatever you want at the end of the day, you make whatever you want out of it. But it is important for us to realize that everyone is going through this experience. It's the human experience.

And for me, honestly, just deciding that has been a game changer. I decide that I get to move forward and I get to have the life that I want. And I get to experience the things that I wanna experience, you know, before I hopped on this call, I wasn't having such a great time cuz I felt like I was having little hurdles just uh, through the morning.

And then I was like, you know what? It's okay. It's okay. This, these situations are being. Presented to me so that I know that to every problem, there's a solution. And I don't have to be like, Ugh, today's gonna be a horrible day. Ugh. You know, I'm starting the day off on the, on the wrong foot, whatever that means.

And like, that's that doesn't set the tone for my day. I get to decide. I come back, I come back to finding like, I wanna experience miracles. I wanna experience magical moments. I wanna experience all of these things and I get to come back to these things. And I really think that that's something that we forget that we have the power to choose.

We're not tied to a person or a situation or an event or a circumstance we have to wake up and just be like, oh wow. I actually have the power to walk away from here. Okay. What resources do I need? Who do I need to contact? How can I find support to leave this relationship to, you know, move away from this?

Because it matters. We can't do things on our own. So thank you for, for having this space for people to come on here and share their story. Because as we realize there's there's much, I mean, there are probably millions would even say maybe a billion

Raven Scott26:20

yeah. There's people that, so. It's it's like, I keep talking about lately.

It's it's in our system. It is the founding of our nation. So yes, it's everywhere. It is infiltrated and you walk around a corner and you will bump into a narcissist 100%. So, yeah. Thank you for sharing.

And any other final thoughts or offerings you wanna share that you can support our, our listen.

Ana Jones26:45

Yeah, no, I, I just wanna say, you know, if you feel called to working or, or doing this type of work where you actually are not dependent on a person or any situation or any type of circumstance, I love working.

I, I focus mostly on women, but I've been drawn to working more with men because I feel. As women, we expect men to understand how we function, but as women, we've actually never bothered to understand how men function and why they react the way that they do. And so I've been, I've been leaning into a lot of compassion to this because, you know, I hear like, uh, you know, fuck the patriarchy and all these and all that.

But the truth is the patriarchy. Hasn't only affected women. It has affected every. Yes. And, and that creates a lot of confusion. So if you're a man, a woman, and you feel called to doing this work. I would love to support you.

I would love to guide you if we're a good fit, I would love to work with you. And I think that's pretty much it, you know, tapping into, tapping into their worth, remembering who they're they are. It sounds very trendy and very out there, but it really is living. Our most unapologetic lives. And, and we don't have to apologize for everything that we do.

We don't have to go around seeking approval validation externally because once we start building that inside, that shifts so many things. And I think that. As a collective, if we understood that. And if we started working in that way, we wouldn't have all the chaos and all the drama and all the protests and all the things that we currently have, especially in the us.

Right. There's a lot of heaviness. There's a lot of things that are, I mean, you're just getting out of one thing and boom, there's another wave and there's another wave and it gets exhausting. To be honest with you. I, I used to be, I used to participate a lot in like rallies and pro and I'm. I'm done my work isn't here.

My work is in another place, so yeah. Um, just vote everyone just vote yeah, yeah, exactly. We can do that,

Raven Scott28:48

but yeah, the inner work is huge. The inner work now. Thank you so much, Anna.

Thank you for listening. Thank you so much for your support. And rating and reviewing this podcast.

Speaking of reviews. I wanted to share with you, uh, Wonderful review. From dating is such a drag, which by the way, is another podcast that I was a guest on. So check that out and make sure that you listen to my episode. As a dating coach specializing in, in paths. This is such an important topic. Raven's experience, knowledge and compassion are important for helping people pleasers release, shame.

And embrace a new way of setting boundaries and loving yourself. It's so important for attracting healthier relationships. Thank you so much Jeanne and I appreciate you. All four. Taking the time to write a review and rating the podcast. If you haven't done. So.

You know where to find it, scroll all the way down and tap a writer review.

If this episode benefited you, take a screenshot and share it to your Instagram stories and tag myself at Raymond Scott show. And at Ana C. Uh, Jones and. Allow us to connect with you

Raven Scott30:00

And remember everybody, keep your unique light shining.