What makes a good Architecture CV?
By Stephen Drew
April 4, 2022
0:00 / 58:52
Stephen Drew00:07

Hello? Hi.

Jack Moran00:08

Hi guys. It looks like we all live.

Stephen Drew00:11

Oh, wow. This is

Jack Moran00:12

cool. Isn't it? I like this is a nice spin on things. So for everyone who is joining us, thank you for joining us today. My name is Jack Moran. I'm joined by Stephen Drew. We both have worked in architectural recruitment. Steven also has an interesting history as a Part Two Architect

so Steven, what I thought I'd do for the benefit of everyone watching you are my boss, normally, I thought that we flip it around today and I ask you some questions so that you can point out the key information for graduates when it comes to building the perfect CV and portfolio, the do's and don'ts, the things that you've seen over the years that you don't want to see anymore, or things that you feel are left out, that they want to, that you want to see further.

How does that

Stephen Drew00:52

sound to you? Sounds good to me. I was just double checking. Everyone can hear us because I've got a little mute button. So sure. All right, we can go for it. So I'm Stephen Drew. I used to be a part, two architectural assistant. I trained up in the industry and then I worked at an AJ100 practice called EPR architects around the time that I was a Part One, it was the 2009 recession.

And I had to find a job during that time when there was absolutely there, there wasn't many jobs around. And so it was a, quite a tough time. Since then I worked in industry for few more years before doing what I do now, which is I focus on getting people, jobs and architectural recruitment, matching architectural practices with people in a practical.

Excellent.

Jack Moran01:42

And I think the benefit the graduates will have here is that, speaking to yourself, you've done both sides, so you've been the architect, but now you've gone over to the recruiter side, but you've transferred that knowledge of the market and the more technical details.

You had, at one point you still will have your own portfolio. So what I'd like to do is set out like an interview style. I'm going to pretend that I'm a graduate as well. Who's coming out of university. And I want to ask you things about potential CV that I would do or portfolio and where you think, what your expertise would say to do, even from the smallest things, so font size up to the level of information.

I need to put it up. So let's get dissected the perfect CV portfolio.

Stephen Drew02:22

Perfect CV. Wow.

Jack Moran02:24

Let's start it off. Nice and simple. Okay. Color. What color should I be using on my

Stephen Drew02:28

CV? Wow, that is a very difficult one to start with Jack, I would say whatever color the person feels is appropriate.

As long as it can be at legible, you don't want to have, for instance, a gray background over things. If you can't read the texts and I've believed that the CV should speak for itself, and the main focus is the content who you are, what you're about, and really you want to make an impact. You want the person who is reviewing the CV to quickly get a good impression of what you're about and what they want to.

They want to invite you for an interview. So you don't want a color which will detract from that. I think really. The emphasis is about our well that's fantastic. Good to see you. I was just Strack asked me what color his CV should be and put me on the spot. And I said that basically, I think it should be the colors, not as important.

It's actually the content really. And the CV is all about making my impression straight away, which resonates, which would resonate with the employer and ideally bring, get you an interview, but what do you think?

Will Ridgway03:41

I actually not disagree with you, but I've got a slightly different take on it.

Cause I think I color can actually, not necessarily, there's no right color to use, but it can actually deter away from the content that's in the CV. I think if you've got like big, bold colors and it's like all over the place, like large blue background, dark blue, or even red, for example, I think red is very difficult to read off.

So I think color can, it can be significant factor because you don't want, you want to keep it simple. I think some people go a bit to artists.

Stephen Drew04:12

I think it's about distraction, isn't it. And the point is what you're saying is if a color's a bit of off pay. So for instance, sometimes people overlay images in the background and I can get really distracted by it when really what you want the person to focus on.

That is who you are, what you can offer, where you, what you've done in university, where you've worked in industry. And as well as that, what software you've gotten, how to get in contact with you really basic stuff. So that would be my first. Excellent.

Jack Moran04:40

Okay. And so if it comes to a background now, do you recommend going this sort of plain background, nothing comes off of it at all?

Like you said, I know the images, it can be distracting. So would you say the same about backgrounds?

Stephen Drew04:53

I wouldn't have a background, plus my opinion, the work should speak for itself. So for me, it's all about a clear attacks font, which is eligible and there's not comic Sans or anything like that. You maybe, and really nice clean, easily presented font, which prints really well.

And you want to keep the layout quite simple and efficient. You are, I think in this should be two pages as well. So it should be really light and really easy to go. Where do you

Jack Moran05:24

stand? It's an interesting topic. This, because obviously CDs in general are a fundamental part of getting a job, but being architecture, do you have a bit more freedom to be a bit more creative with the CV, as opposed to, someone who might just be going for a job as like a facilities manager or something,

Stephen Drew05:40

right?

Yeah. So the CV with a CV you'll have a portfolio and the portfolio should be show an overview of the work you've done. And the CV is normally one or two pages and together they paint a picture of who you are and what you're about. Sometimes you can have a beautiful image or two on a CV that you don't want it too small, and you don't want it too big.

I've seen examples of an image on the CV where economics be a taster to get someone into a, to get to the person, reading the CV, excited, and then they can have a little lock in the portfolio, but equally a CV can be just text and that's equally fine as well. What do you think?

Will Ridgway06:24

So I think I agree with having keeping quite simple, really.

I think some people go overboard with trying to convey their architecture fled too much in the CV by adding these backgrounds, maybe like flowers over the CV. So it can be quite distracting when you're, when you've got your portfolio. They, it doesn't need to be too in too complicated.

I think it's better to be simple and subtle. I can ask the most effective. And when it comes to your sort of color scheme, just keep it neat. Really. It's just gotta be neat and tidy. Yeah. That's really what I would say.

Stephen Drew06:57

Yes. I agree with the content and who you are about should come through, right? The person shouldn't be distracted by anything else.

And I think that this theme that we're talking about is cool and that transcends tax font, everything. It really should go through for, at it should go for everything. So I believe so we talk about do's and don'ts for that a bit, Jack, just to jump in. So downs is. You don't want anything that distracts from the mission as the CV, and then what is the mission?

Jack Moran07:32

What's

Stephen Drew07:32

the mission? I think the mission is to make a positive impression and gain an interview, right? You want to con you want someone to, you want the, you need to solve the employer's problem. So if I'm running a practice and I have a team, and on that team, I'm working on a residential project and I need someone else.

They need to look at that CV. And the point that comes across. Reading that CV is that you can help fix that problem. So if you, for instance, showcase that you've made that you understand rabbits and you've got a two, one at a really good university and then brilliant. You want to showcase that.

And if you've worked in industry as well, you want that to pop, you want that to put that at the top. So in five seconds you can almost scan down the CV and subliminally the employer will think this person. There's something there. Let me go to the next level and then they'll start reading the CV in more detail.

And then the idea is that at that point, that they're interested, they can see the contact details and get in touch. So for me, that's what a C that's what the CV should do. And a few dues is making that information easily available and pop quickly. So don'ts for me are distractions. So as well said, we don't want no flowery backgrounds.

You don't want a font that's too small or, and also a CV that's too long. You're not getting the points across. You're getting lost and you're meandering and therefore you're not you're doing yourself a disservice. So that's my thoughts. But what do you think? Yeah,

Will Ridgway09:10

so I completely agree.

I think it's best to always see your CV as a piece of advertisement of yourself. So if your ads nowadays have sees a bit quirky, so don't, this is a loose connection to it, but they're quite simple and very short in terms of words, and when it comes to CV, you don't want to overload it by paragraphs and paragraphs of writing.

You want to keep it short and sweet and concise. I think that's very important because that way it gets the message across. It was the means that the employer or the hiring manager, whoever's looking at the CV, it doesn't switch off because it can be quite lengthy to read paragraphs and paragraphs of writing, which is why I think when it comes to the layout of the CV, it's got to be simple.

Generally. I prefer when I read CVS, I like reading things in chunks. So if it's already chunked for me, it's really helpful. So if you've got like chunk for one section for your introduction, a chunk for your employment history, a chunk for your education history, it's very easy to go through it. See exactly where to look at, to find specific information.

So if I'm looking for a CV and I see, and I want to find out where they worked at before, it's very easy for me to locate that. Whereas some people, if you read. As a big bulk message, it can be quite difficult to find that crucial information when we just need to look through and find those key points.

So simple, effective, and subtle is generally the things I look I would like to see.

Stephen Drew10:39

Yeah, I think that covers a lot of presentation, but what's your thoughts Jack, on the night? What kind of bits you want to talk about next? Maybe? I think,

Jack Moran10:47

it's quite good. Cause obviously the points we've just covered, essentially the fundamentals are, don't overload your CV, keep it, keep the vital information that don't overdo it.

And as will said, it's merely an advertisement of yourself. You want to almost dangle a carrot stick in front of them. And then once you really want to get the interview that as the mission isn't able to get in there and see yourself. Yeah. So I think it's a really good point. I wanted to ask both of you, over the years you've worked in the industry, what is the most common don't that you see happen in CVS?

Now this can be, from graduates up to lead, where are the most common mistakes in people's CVS and portfolios that

Stephen Drew11:23

you find? So for me, I'll say mine first. Is that the one I'm always surprised. Is people not spellchecking right. It's a document that it's supposed to be the most important document to the person that you're basically you're trying to secure an interview.

And when you're designing a document, sometimes you can almost skim read it, or you know what you mean? So that when you actually read it yourself, you don't pick up that there's grammar errors or spelling. And actually, that's why it's always good to get someone else to read it.

Because the last thing you want to do is have spelling mistakes, which detracts, and puts off the employer from inviting you for, to an interview. So I would double and triple spousal track. The CV and make sure it reads well, make sure it's eligible, make sure that the content is fought out and concise.

What do you think? Yeah, I completely agree.

Will Ridgway12:22

That's exactly what I was thinking at first when Jack posed the question. Yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking. And I can't reiterate enough how important it is and how many people make the mistake. Wherever you're not English is your first language or not.

Everyone makes this mistake. And it's like Steven said, it's just easy to skip over the same word that you've misspelled. I do it all the time. And so it's always important to get a different take on it, get someone else to read for it. I think to try and freshen up rather than repeat what Steven said.

I think one of the biggest don'ts I see is it's mainly. Other than spelling. It'd probably be like the amount of pages. I think it's probably less relevant for those starting out. Students because you generally don't have enough content to stretch over three pages. That's excluding a portfolio by the way.

I'm just talking about the main CV itself. But as you expand your history of education history, your work history, a lot of people end up having pages and pages of CV and, not all of it's relevant. I think you can make it, you can condense it down and make it a maximum of two pages. And then you have that lovely sample portfolio following up after.

So I would it's always key to, be concise. Cause I think some people can waffle on a little bit in their CV or talk about things that don't have to talk about the CV. They can save it for the interview instead. So it's just all about being concise and That's it.

Stephen Drew13:47

And the other thing I'd like to jump in with is that you need to make sure again, that your contact details have very obvious that you don't want someone to get excited and then they can't find they can't, they don't know how to get in contact with you.

And the other thing that I don't think you should rely on NCVs is web links. So for example, you always need a CV and a portfolio and they should be complimentary, right? You can't expect someone's employer to click a web link and the CV might be printed out in the office. No, one's going to type in.

Email address, sorry, along a website. So you want the CV almost like to join on to the portfolio. I wouldn't do that. And as well, looking at some of the, some of my faults. Yeah. Our little notes before social media accounts, you don't need to put them on there. You want to keep the attention on the CV and portfolio.

You don't want the employer then to start typing in your social media account, going on your Instagram, seeing what you got up to on Sunday with. It's great. And you'd let you know if you've got loads of art by then, and that's fantastic, but the whole mission of the CV is to get to solve the employer's problems and get you in, the fact that you worked in industry and, rabbits and you've had good references is what you should be focusing on.

You don't want people to go off into the meander, into the never, and by that. They don't, they've forgotten why they went to meet you. So you want to keep the focus that really?

Will Ridgway15:22

Yeah. I think the the only social media you shouldn't be, you should put there, you don't have to put it. It'd be LinkedIn.

That'd be the only one that's be relevant for it. You want to keep the Instagram stuff away because Steven says it deters you. I think it's important when it comes to contact details as well. You want to make sure they're, they're at the top of the page somewhere easily visible, and then.

I think going into a bit more about contact details, thinking of people put stuff that you don't necessarily have to include it. And that includes a lot of, I think people put date of births, their home address is not needed for a CV. And I think actually you should always avoid it because the last thing you want is for an employer to see if you're.

You're studying at Manchester. Yeah. If you're studying in Manchester and you're living in Manchester, but you were applying for a job in London, the last thing you want.

Stephen Drew16:12

Yeah. You need some, let them know where you going and they, and that's a really good point. Let's talk about that one second, because for instance, if you are a student, who's just come back from America and the, you don't have a address in Britain.

I would try to, if you are going to put your address on that, you need to at least say that you're in London, or even if it's a friend's address, you need something there. And I would always get a British number if we're trying to get a job in London, you'd do that because typing plus free for foreign sometimes can be, can cause a bit of confusion and then you don't get a call.

So you need to definitely put that on a British UK address and phone number then. And we've references. Cause we were talking about yesterday and our little group when we well about references where I think. Putting down the person to who, who give the references fine. You don't need to put down the, your references mobile number down there yet until you go for the interview with that should be the final part of the process, in my opinion, and obviously if you are in current employment, this is probably a good one to put.

You should definitely do not put down your current employer as a reference yet. Oh, you want to say currently employed at this particular company would respectfully ask you to ask for a reference at the end and maybe then put down a previous ref referral into. Yeah. I think that a

Jack Moran17:35

lot of it is it sounds, quite like common sense, doesn't it?

But we've all seen so many profile portfolios and CVS where people just don't adhere to this stuff. And this is not surprised. No, then they don't get that cool

Stephen Drew17:47

back. Yeah. I remember once when I, my part one, I remember that my mobile wouldn't work for one day and because they were just wet, it just broke.

And the employee, I rang doing that. And so I got the call. I rang back and immediately I was on the back foot, from the get go. So then I felt really awkward and it's because basically. I didn't fully plan it out or what I should have done is dealt with the problem straight away, but basically they couldn't ring me.

And now is the difference because it was real life right now. And there's it's a tough time. And so there's probably 10 people. Who's also applying for that role. So if they can't get ahold of you or you don't make that impact straight away, the sad reality is there's probably several CVS as well.

So you've really got to nail it down. It's almost like. It's the quick thing of for instance you want to on the CV, you want to get the point across and then at the end of it, they've got to know how to get hold of you straight away. But the other thing that I think would be good to talk about is your next point track.

I'm sorry, I'm reading your list here, but the employment and education and

Jack Moran18:54

yeah. Yeah. That's what I wanted to ask because I've seen it myself as well. With continuity and seeing your CDN portfolio a bit like a timeline, but the amount of CDs I've seen where there's crossover dates or, there's things that don't make sense.

So w what, your sort of advice and tips for people when it comes to putting your employer dates and, your role. Good

Stephen Drew19:16

question. So I, so employment dates, if you have a gap, it's absolutely no problem. I always feel that when you have something which you nervous about, so whether it's visa, sponsorship or a gap, when the employment, the best thing to do is to tackle it head on, right?

I would say exactly why, there's absolutely no shame that the bizarre bit comes as if you almost do not explain the gaps. One of my close friends in his CV, he went traveling for a year and he said, globally, went on my motorcycle, travel abroad, and traveling around in Richmond and experience.

He embraced then the empire like that, they talked about that. And then that gap was fine. If, for instance, right now, your job has been impacted because. Let's talk about it because the reality is several companies right now have had to make tough decisions and fellow people I'll make redundancies. There is absolutely no shame and embracing that.

And I think that addressing gaps in the CVS, the right thing. The other thing, yeah, the moment that I've seen some examples though, when you dig deeper into a CV and actually the dates don't really tally up the LinkedIn and it's a bit confusing. And then I actually, then in my head, I start visualizing if this person.

Altering the fabrics of what is real then what else will be there, and then, so there's this sort of feeling then of a lack of trust. So any gaps in the employment, explain them. And if you had to, for instance, if you've had a child and you've been working at home and you want to get back into industry, say that, embrace that because that's real life, we are, life happens.

We know this we've been we're on furlough. It can makes complete sense. W obviously we want to come back when it's, when everything is right, but right now that's the reality of the situation. And I'm not embarrassed to say it because the thing is that real life, these things happen.

So going back to your points, always embrace real life, explain these things. And if you hit it head on at the start and say why it becomes a non-issue. So then when you go into the interview, you're not worried. You don't feel like you're hiding something or you're embarrassing. What do you think?

Will Ridgway21:29

Yeah, I completely agree.

I've seen so many CVS that maybe you've got, you've been to like, multiple jobs and then there's, but the dates of these jobs are 2020, 2019 to 2020. Now other ones, 2017, 2002 19. This is like pretty vague. It's very vague. And you immediately, my natural reaction is to think, okay, what are they hiding?

Whereas if you had said, maybe I went traveling during this during these periods and you spent like a year and a month at this place. Unfortunately the place had to close down because they had had to make people redundant, run out of money because of whatever. So it's important just to tackle it head on because then you have nothing to hide and it's, everyone's human.

So I, that's why I, that's why I would say, I think you've really hit the nail on the head there, Steve, with those points, really anything I had done as well as maybe the particular order that you set it up. So in terms of chronological order, I think some people, for some reason, lights of do it from oldest to newest at the bottom.

And I always should be the other way round, just like your portfolio, where it should be the most recent at the top. And then. Each one goes down, but with the dates include the months and the year you'd have to include what they're just a month and a year is sufficient enough.

Stephen Drew22:46

I agree. The only thing I'd add to that is that you probably want to put a bit more emphasis on the last few roles.

So for instance, let's pretend you're a design director and you're all career you've gone through several different stages. You can just say that you were a part one back in the day. You don't need to necessarily talk about everything you did as a part one, because you progressed since then. So you maybe you'll talk about the last two or three roles in more detail.

So for instance on my LinkedIn, for instance, my emphasis is on my current roles and what I'm up to. And I mentioned that I was a part one before. I don't necessarily talk about all the things I did in great length. What you want to cover off in an architectural or CV. And my opinion, once you've worked in India, You want to talk about where you currently work, what your role was on the project.

You want to talk about the size of the project and the sector. For instance, if I'm currently, when I was like, when I was at EPR, I was working on a residential scheme, which was large-scale based in London using MicroStation. That's the main key point. I don't need to do is talk about, I don't need to tell you the ins and outs of everything you want to hit that on.

You want to talk about the sector, the RIBA stages. Thank you, Chris. I completely agree whether it's stage one or stage five, because really that's the important bit. The employer will then know if you've worked on. And stages, or you've worked on technical stages. And ideally if you've done all reader stages, then you paint in the picture for the empire that you've carried a building through.

For instance, if you've worked on stages one to three, then it's really important. You put that in because actually if a project's a stage four, you probably not the right fit and you're going to be overwhelmed. So you need to stay exactly what you've done in industry, if you're, and if you haven't worked in industry and so there's a state.

You want to talk about what software you've done and you wanted, you want to give it and you want, you, don't almost don't need to see the need to talk about the academic, if thesis behind them. It's more about, I went to this university, I got this grade and this the scores. And actually then if you haven't worked in an architectural practice yet, talk a little bit about what you've done in in, in terms of work.

So on my CV, it was that I worked in Waitrose, but I didn't talk about everything I did at Waitrose. I didn't talk about me getting the chickens out of the oven. But what I did say is that I worked and I liaise with people and actually I was involved with sales. I was involved with logistics and I kept it really brief, but that showed that I actually was someone that was.

Professionally engaged. I had done stuff as well during the time I studied, but what that's my fault on it, really.

Will Ridgway25:37

Okay. Yeah. I

Jack Moran25:39

was just going to say what you said about the waitressing is quite good. Steven. I think for a, for particularly a lot of the graduates, they're going to be coming out of uni, looking for their first job.

Now it's going to be an intimidating process for a lot of people. I think what the risk some graduates will do are say they've had like yourself jobs outside of architecture before, but they will put a huge amount of detail and responsibility into such a role. And it makes it sound like, that they were almost at a managerial position.

And I think, it's not what employers want because they can generally get a good idea of what you've done in that role. But what would you think. I

Stephen Drew26:13

think you keep it. I think it's more about what you want to do from putting that on the CVS as show that you're someone that's hardworking. And you've been implied. So that's the bit you want to take away. So I think on my waitress, it would be work full time here and there did this, that while studying and talk about it and say, I did this while I was working while I was studying so that I could get through my degree in architecture, because that's how you, what then if you came to me, I'd be talking about that.

And then I'd be talking about your interest in architecture. And the fact is you support yourself going through it. So I think it's very commendable to put that stuff in, but obviously the bed, but you always want to focus on the main thing in. If you have worked in industry, that is the focus, right? And then any other transferable work skills, then you talk about it.

So you want it. So if you're a student, I see it as education first, and any internships, anything you've done like that, or anything architectural related then goes at the front. If you haven't and then you talk about other work experience. If you are an architect, for instance, and you have several years experience, because we are going to put the education there, we need to instantly know when you got your ARB, so people can visualize how long you've been practicing.

But do you want to talk about your most recent work first? And the examples you want to be literal? You want to be like, who, what, where, when, why, so you want to be like, I was a project architect, LA 20 million pounds, residential scheme stages 1, 2, 3. And I did this other project as well. So you go boom.

And then you talk a little bit about what you did as part two and you trail off.

Jack Moran27:50

Excellent. Okay. And that feeds quite nicely into the next topic I wanted to bring up. And this is a bit more specific. It's talking about the software, a particular proficiency. Now we know working in the market that we do, we understand how some software, has been on the incline and some similar decline when it comes to, using software, which is a fundamental part of architecture.

What is your advice for, talking about one skill or to particular software rev it, for

Stephen Drew28:15

example, so good questions. Cause I've got the truth is I've got two faults in my mind. So my two always used to say to me, right? So rabbit for instance, is a piece of software. It's a designed. But it doesn't, you can have rabbit, but the reality is you need an architect to, to drive rabbit.

You need, an architect needs to design and needs to know how to design a building. The rabbit, come through that for you. And the EMR part of it is from working in recruitment. Again, it goes back to the point of an employer has a problem or the employer will have a current setup. Okay. So the fact that is the truth is if rabbit right now, you do have an advantage because you will be joining an architecture practice.

And if they use rapids, which is the way it's all going, cause a bin. You, if you have that skillset, you are putting yourself at a massive advantage compared to someone who doesn't, that's not to say it's not a measurement of your design scale. So software's an interesting one. We're actually, I think software can be the big difference and you get in the job or not.

So for instance, me and we'll work with some architecture practices and if you do not have rabbits, the reality is we can't get you an interview and there's been times isn't it. Where we got really close, or for instance, there was one architecture practice and they interviewed a friend of mine actually.

And they really liked them. And it was just the fact that he didn't know rabbit was the difference between him getting the job or not. So I do think showcasing all the software, is really important. And so I can just see a question that's come in. It's really subjective. And how you are, you put that on a piece of paper because as I remember remember one of my.

One of the candidates are speaking to us like, yes, I'm a red that wears on the best 10 hour, 10, 10 out of 10. And then she did a rabbit test and didn't get such a high score. Whereas for instance, I know a few people, there was a BIM coordinator who basically it says. He can use it and he's used it for a length of time and he was the one that was a big Maestro.

So I think to say on CVS, you're seven hour 10 on rabbit, for instance, that is highly subjective. So the way I go about with software is to be literal. So I would say. If you are a citizen, I would say I have used rabbit for one or two years on a project on my academic project. If you've used it then in industry, I will say that during my employment at EPR, I use rabbit for two years because what you're doing is you've been quantifying it in a length of time and which isn't subjective, because this is a fact then that you worked on that project.

But that period of time, and you were using rabbit, and that is something that is actually quite, you can, it's tangible because that's a period of time you use that. And I think that's the way I would go. I personally, when you see some CVS and they'll be borrow a 10 and I think I did when I was a student, because I put my CV on the.

On the architecture socially they look at it, then I'm at the time I think I said, excellent intermediate. And I looked back and that subjective, where I should have done is said the length of time that they used the programs. But what do you think?

Will Ridgway31:39

Yeah, I've seen so many people, write themselves out of 10 and yes, it is quite subjective, but it's also, it's quite visually nice if I want to quickly see through something and I can see someone feels confident with it.

Great. If they've got rev, if they've mentioned whether on their software skills less then fantastic. Cause I that's really helpful.

Stephen Drew31:59

Yeah, I know. I know. And I'm going to play devil's advocate with you here is a debate, right? So yeah. So say not go on. Tell me how long have you.

Will Ridgway32:13

He's seven out of 10.

Yeah. But it gives me an indicator that they know what they're talking about when it comes to benefits. But obviously, I don't use that as face value. It's an indicator to the employer, but the employer is not going to hire you based on the fact that you've done seven out, you got seven out of 10 number fits on your seat.

Stephen Drew32:30

I w I would hire you on the fact that you've done architectural recruitment for the close to two years. That's tangible. But if you send me a CV and you said your eight are kind of recruitment, and what does that mean? Why are you AOTA? And cause you've got to speak with people

Jack Moran32:48

it's too subjective.

Isn't it? And it's too. It's just, I don't really, I think with anything kind, a CB, architectural, not using stars to rate yourself a particular skill. It's very subjective and you're not going to take much from it, especially I think what Steven said, if you can just talk about your experience or professional revenue experience using it on a project, the type of project, the scale, the stages that there's just a short information about that it's going to do a lot more for any potential employers, then, a few star

Stephen Drew33:16

levels.

You didn't know, I'm thinking out loud as well. That's if you, for instance, got certified and the rabbit course, that is a fact. So I think that has, we've seen that though. For instance, if someone's gone on ACAD professional rabbit license, then sorry, certified rabbit professional, I think that's what it is.

Then the reality is you must be good in some shape or form. And I think for me, that gets from my point is the more and more you can be literal, the mobile more, you can be factual. Then that is something that solves the problem. So for instance, so for me in the CV, it should be all about who you are, what you've done and can you do it?

So for instance, if, when I send my CV, EPR invited me for an interview, because I said, I know MicroStation, I've been the Westminster and I've got a two, one I'm in London. Here's my contact details. Would you get me for an interview? And it was that combination that got me in and doing the interview.

They talked about MicroStation and picked it up, and they were. The CV gain those points across. And then when I got to the end of you and then you go, the portfolio is the bet you talk about for the next step. So the CV will, it is it's the gateways to get you in the interview and some, and then when you're in the interview, sometimes it can be the sole focus or it can be not talked about at all.

So for instance, on a client side role in architecture and a developer, they will just go for the CV. It's not a case of looking at the portfolio, but when you're a stay with them, the CV and the portfolio is what really gets you get to going.

Jack Moran35:03

And just on that as well, because we just had a question coming in from Sahara, which I think will be a nice question for you to answer actually.

And it refers to, what's the most commonly used software that we've experienced. And I imagine the answer is going to be relatively the same, but Stephen, you first, what do you think what's shown most for you over.

Stephen Drew35:21

Rabbit is where it's at now, then. And that's purely because of the way projects are built anymore.

So at the time I used to use MicroStation and now it's all going towards Ben. So large practices predominantly use rabbit now, and it's, you've still got some practices which use AutoCAD MicroStation. The reality is though, for instance, the requirements I get in terms of recruitment, the briefs that me and we'll work on, usually rabbit is almost a prerequisite now.

So does the short answer for me is it's rabbit is the one that's going to get. At ju more than likely Transcat the job. What do you think? Yeah, abs

Will Ridgway36:03

absolutely rev, I think like you said, all the rows we get are predominantly river based, even practices that don't use wherever inherently they're setting things up to move over to rabbit because they don't want to be left behind in terms of the industry and with the government as well with shine making certain buildings, BIM level two it has to be in the feminine would SU then a lot of practices needs to use Revvit in order to be able to get out to them.

Number two, to then also win more projects in the future. So</