LIVE with Hamza Shaikh to talk about the Next Generation of Architects
By Stephen Drew
May 8, 2022
0:00 / 56:16
Stephen Drew00:03

Okay, we're going live everywhere in 30 seconds. I got my new sound

pressing the wrong buttons. Your hands there. This get ready. Okay. You got to act professional. Now this is not any amateur show we're on LinkedIn, the hopper professionals. Okay. Make sure everything's taped up. Ready to go? What else have I got? Yeah, some buttons

no more times. No most times. And got a cricket. Nice. I once sat about four seconds, 3, 2, 1. Hello, everyone. And welcome to the Architecture Social line. And I'm joined here. We have a fantastic guest. That's the only sound I had there, but we need more epic. We need a more epic, epic, epic reveal for where I've got a proper architect in the Macon studying as part free content creator and YouTube.

Extraordinary. Am I allowed to say that? Am I allowed to say that? Well, actually, I'm going to say it anyways. Hamza, you were here. On LinkedIn, how are you today?

Hamza Shaikh01:17

Hm, I'm good. And I'm going to have to speak fairly quiet because there's a kid, my kid sleeping in the other room. Well,

Stephen Drew01:24

don't well, don't worry.

We're a perfect match for that. Cause I'm extremely loud. So between those. Yeah. Well,

Hamza Shaikh01:31

first of all, the intro was you should have a show in the BBC mate. I dunno how it's not happened yet. Well, w

Stephen Drew01:38

we'll we'll get that, but okay. Before we talk about today's agenda, I've, I've upped the production. Okay. So I've got a few things.

I want you to critique my show quickly before we talk about the future of architects. So I've got me. Okay. And I've, I've looked hard for architecture memes. Okay. So did you know Frank Gary was in the Simpsons, he had you dead and there we go. There's this building. So I got an architecture mean for you and as well as that, um, I got my favorite meme at the moment, which is working from home, which I think is perfect.

Isn't it? Same support for, it seems like what it's like for me. So I've got that and I've got some other surprises as well. Okay. But we'll roll on. We'll roll on because this is not all about means, even though I love a good mean, this is actually a serious conversation. So I get my battle ready last, a real battle.

Wow. It depends. The intention will be serious, but then I'm hosting. So it tends to derail and go off in a tangent, but we fought, we would talk about today discussing the future generation of architects, what that entails in this new, new, modern world. Now, before we go on to that, if anyone hasn't seen you online or anything like that, you want to tell us a little bit about what you're up to.

And then we can, we can go into the topic.

Hamza Shaikh03:14

Yeah, sure. It's always hard to kind of describe it. I'll be honest with you. Cause there's quite a few things and I haven't sort of consolidate everything into one place. However, two worlds design is the most consolidated form of what I do. So if you guys want to go and check out two worlds designer, Um, that code at UK, everything is there.

Essentially. I create a podcast series which explores the multidisciplinary potential of architecture. So for like the last four or five years, I've been not very regularly, but you know, with waves of busy-ness being, speaking to people on the, on the fringes of architecture,

Stephen Drew03:57

You're like you're here and you're in the trailer.

This is your website. Am I like your power by the way? Which is seriously cool.

Hamza Shaikh04:07

Yes. It was an amazing, uh, sort of journey that I started in the middle of my master's and I wanted to make the most of the sound recording facilities at the university of Westminster, um, and all the incredible researchers and practitioners around me in central London.

So. I might as well start a podcast series and. Yeah, it was just, it was just a trip. Cause I, you can see in the images I spoke to Angela Brady, the ex president of RBA, I don't know Daniel Fermin. Who's just killing it as a, as a designer. And so the theme, as I mentioned is just people with Architectural backgrounds who are doing something on the.

And I think that kind of ties into the broader topic today anyway. Um, but as you can see as well, I do drawings. I think I took a lot of, um, uh, spent a lot of time trying to create accessible tutorials workshops for students who really felt in university as I did that, there was not enough resources to learn.

You know, the practical skills related to drawing. And so I just started sharing my, my drawings and process and yeah, one thing led to another, well, it

Stephen Drew05:15

looks really, really good. And one of the, um, one of the episodes that I watched and enjoyed in particular was with you, with Marcus, from Dezeen now, and that it was, there was like, it was an interesting.

And the, and you know, I'm building the Architecture, Social, you build online platforms as well. So it was quite interesting to hear a man who's done a lot in his career. Who's built this massive website and I quite enjoy it. Although again, a little bit controversial where, you know, you saying, so what's your favorite architect and all this stuff.

And he's like, no, I'm not interested in that. And you're like, what? You're on the biggest Architecture website. And he's like, no, I've got to keep my. The list. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. That was, that was

Hamza Shaikh06:01

interesting. I've got some insights at some hidden stories about that interview if you want. Um, so just getting him and getting him to agree with just a massive.

Task. I mean, of course let's be honest. He's a, he's a big deal. You know, if we're, if we're going to be just blatantly honest, the guy who found Dezeen I think for my generation, I can't speak for older generations, but we were, we were raised in university knowing Dezeen as like, almost like the Bible, like, you know, you go and get your references and you know, the database they've created.

When you think about it, hindsight. It's incredible. It's next to nothing right now. Cause you know, you just go into the design database type in anything you want and you get drawings, inspiration, precedent, research, everything. So he really was somebody who drastically influenced the field of architecture as a journalist.

And so, yeah, so. The way I actually got that interview. Cause a lot of people ask, how did you get Marcus fairs? And I sent a bunch of emails, um, of which there were no response, but then yeah. And then I was like, let me just jump into it at the end. So I think I just,

Stephen Drew07:13

I slipped right in there. What's going on?

You're like, Hey, I love that. I just sent

Hamza Shaikh07:19

into the hands. I was like, Marcus, do you want to jump on the podcast? And he was like, yeah. And then. He gave me his PA's email. I emailed the PA and I think the PA was like, sorry, Marcus is too busy for this. And I was like, what?

Stephen Drew07:33

Yeah. Did you know? I was saying, I mean, it's the M's okay.

Hamza Shaikh07:38

I literally, that's what I did. I just sent him the screenshot and CC'd markers. And he's like, no, I'm doing this, but you know, Yeah. When we got there, when we got there, I set up my w one ATP HD camcorder from probably 2007 that I bought from CX secondhand electronics store. And, um, got these, these Amazon, you know, um, Mike holders and put two, two phones in there to record the audio.

And I could tell he was a bit like. Oh, this is not what I expected. Well, then the conversation started and I got my interview. You

Stephen Drew08:16

got your interview and I felt the production was all right. You know, I think. Uh, well, you know, more than anyone, especially with cameras and stuff, there's, there's like a level of, there's the nice cameras, but to be on this, as long as the audio is the main thing, and let me tell you, I've recorded a few podcasts and at the end, the audio is a bit crappy and you're like, ah, what do I do?

Because that can really stop people less than, but it, it, it was, it was good actually, while you were speaking, we've got one or two people in the audience because this is a life. And so Emily Foster and Emily is really, really cool architectural apprentice at H and M. She helped a lot, especially in the Architecture Social during the start says, congratulations on winning the individual of the year award.

Was that last night then? Did you win?

Hamza Shaikh09:03

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.

Stephen Drew09:06

All right. We got to have a fit show around the forest. I have to update this there, or, you know, when it comes out and I, you know, take the, take the sound and put it on Spotify. Now you're the individual of the year. Okay. Wow. There you go. Show you.

Hamza Shaikh09:22

I've got a little framed. Yeah, let's

Stephen Drew09:24

get it. Let's get out the ward. I haven't got like, um, a drum roll, which isn't sarcastic and I don't want to do that. Yes. Good for you. They're actually cool. That trust is really cool. Isn't it? I didn't know much about the phones and education trusts. That's really

Hamza Shaikh09:42


Just launched its incredible initiative and you know, it was, it was just a crazy feeling to be, you know, you know, before even winning, just sat there, listening to, and kind of absorbing what was happening. Yeah, realizing that there, there is now a force and there is more recognition of people doing things on the fringe of architecture.

Because, you know, all the people there, whether you want to call them, you know, practitioners in the field, they were all doing something different to practice and, you know, inspiring as the award says, inspiring the future generation of RPA. But everyone's an auto-drive and they're just doing it. And I think the first thing I thought was, and I think you could be definitely included into this cause, you know, we're, we're, we're a bunch of people who are putting out free content out there constantly, and we all are driven by one thing and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's just, if you can inspire one person, if one person is taking value from what you're doing, it just makes it work.

So you're not even thinking about money. You're not even thinking about, um, you know, all these material things. So I just had that weird realization yesterday that for the first time, Things that are slightly alternative to practice or being recognized. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and again, this leads into the conversation that we probably can have today.


Stephen Drew11:06

Well, it reminds me some of the stuff that you do in protect glam. So cause you know, you, you get a sketch in as well or reminds me, there's a really good website online called the future, you know, without the E at the end. So they kind of like an online. Uh, trying to set some more in graphic design and motion design as well.

And they really, really cool, but you're right. I think what's interesting about on line and this, I think there's a nice trade-off isn't it? Because, um, I find that it's really nice doing one-on-ones it's really nice going and being involved in Samuel has been involved in discussion. One of the interesting things about being online is that that can reach a wider audience and you have the live audience, and then you have the audience which watches the replay.

So the reach is infinitely more. It's a little bit scary though. I mean, we're alive now. And like, you know, I've got bowels and it's not at its head and we could say anything. Your baby at any moment, you know, lovely, beautiful baby. The wave happens. And I think you've got to be okay with going with the flow, but I think for a lot of people, but it can be a little bit too scary, kind of going into that.

So, and because naturally as professionals. You worry about you. We all have that humanistic thing of like, oh gosh, what if I say something will that affect my career? Will that affect my situation? I mean, I feel that, and I get the stress. Have you felt like that before being a professional architect in the making part to studying apart free and making content as well?

Hamza Shaikh12:41

I feel it now, I feel I've, I've said it to people around me constantly. Like, I feel like one day I might get canceled and yeah. You know? Yeah. You said it as well. So it's just like, yeah, I think it's, it's not as a result of it it's as a result of we, we were in a very judgmental profession. We're in a very politicized profession.

There's all sorts of social political groups involved who have, who have very close ties to politics. And that's just the reality of it. Yeah. Obviously we have quite a big reach into the social political realm because the power of architecture, but at the end of the day, I think Architecture is so much more than just one thing.

And there's massive. There's a massive shift happening at the moment. I think not just in the way Architecture as a field is kind of spreading its wings, but I think also hopefully. The infrastructure around the conversations, the discourse is it's opening up more and more, um, as it should. So, yeah, I think you're right.

We're in a, we're in a field where it's difficult for people to really feel. They can express their personal views. And, but I think that's the gist. That's just the difficulty of the profession we're in, because you wouldn't say the same thing for like, um, let's just say midwifery, you know, they're not on LinkedIn talking about their political views.

They just get on with their jobs. But because our profession is so unique in a way we are. Well more often than not in positions of talking about politics, talking about difficult issues. So I think the main thing is people need to be accepting and we need to keep kind of nourishing that kind of accepting everyone's views and allowing more space for discussion and discourse to

Stephen Drew14:32


I, I agree. And I think, I think, well, well said, um, The F the, the scariness of being out there is that. You can, you can naturally worry that it may affect your career in some shape or form. I have some active friends at the moment, right. And one of my clients who is amazing, super talented, it's like, well done on the podcast, Dave, but you'll never get me on there.

And I'm like, why not? He's like over my dead body. And this is like one of the most smartest people I know with no real controversial views, but I just totally get it. He's. I am going to do my thing in the background. I'm not going to be on the air. However, I believe like you said that actually there's that deep, there's that deep feeling of, I don't trust if this gets out there, maybe how my employees will react or how my team will react.

And, you know, I think, I think that we can all, it's good to loosen up a that. And what I learned anecdotally is that once you get in a live stream, You're not really going to say anything that bad. And if something is misinterpreted, then just be open about it and say what you meant and move on from it.

But there's probably usually a lot more to gain from it. So for example, you've won that award last night. I imagine that's been over. Work in the making or let's talk about a few of your content creation friends like Tom Landry. It does. It's like YouTube is a grind. It's hard work. Like it's not all the glamour of just the Emmy, uh, you know, the video you've got to edit that thing.

You've got to get the punches, right? You've got to work out when to post this content. You've got to work out the message you've got to get the FUM nail is so much work then that actually. It's it's like this whole different life alongside your career. How many, how have you found that? Where do you get the time with, uh, with a beautiful baby doing your part fray and as well as content?


Hamza Shaikh16:38

I got asked that in an interview recently. And I get asked that a lot by just like people who, when they find out what I do, and they're like, how the hell do you do that? And it's been years of me trying to find a way to answer this question. And I don't know how, because I'm not cognizant of why.

I'm not, I'm not consciously thinking of why it's working. I just feel like I'm on an auto-drive. That's what we're saying as well. That's what I said in the speech yesterday as well. I feel like, and I hope, and I feel there's other people out there who also just on auto drive. I think you, you, yourself, you know, you're heavily involved in the profession and you're doing crazy production, content creation, creating these platforms.

You you're allowed to drive. I assume.

Stephen Drew17:22

Well, that's kind and you're right. I always joke. We have a mutual friends sign on there at scale. Now I would drive someone they're insane. And I got along with very well. Why? I mean, I drive her insane is that I am, I have no lists. I go with my gut and I walk out the content and that kind of works.

The downside is though sometimes no less, it can get a bit stressful and like me and you were relaxed doing this today. I didn't really send you much preparation. I did the graphic. I said, Hey, show up. Plus you, hopefully you trust me, but then you go, what I've learned is I've got to be respectful of different people.

And sometimes people like, like a brief. They like to know to bring the mic. And so that's why I've got to learn from hands-on rather than just going, Hey, don't worry. It'll be fine. We'll live streaming. No,

Hamza Shaikh18:07

everyone's got their own work workflow. Everyone's got their own efficiency. I think, you know, the way I answered that question in the interview was, um, it feels like everything is aligned for me and it took a while for that to happen.

So, you know, the YouTube content creation, it's kind of compartmentalizing. Yeah, Instagram drawings that I do. That's also a separate pie in my head. Um, the professional work is also, I mean, that takes up a big part in my head. Cause I'm doing it five days a week. That that's also a separate problem. But if you made a diagram, each one of them is connected and right.

You could think of it as all the cause. Okay. Look, I think the basis is I'm obsessive really curious. I'm obsessed and curious thinker. Yeah. I D I constantly make my wife. I would life held because of deep thinking and questioning and, you know,

Stephen Drew19:03

I ask, what does your wife do? Is she an architect or another Korean?

Hamza Shaikh19:07

She's a midwife. That's why I say,

Stephen Drew19:09

I think, yeah, I think it's good. When I cut, I've seen the architecture couple, the two architects, and while one of my really good friends, I can go for drinks, but then they'll have that talk with each other. I think it's quite nice. Then you both got different careers, is that right?


Hamza Shaikh19:25

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's also an interesting conversation of like, you know, How you can, some people like the fact that they can come home and they can relate 100% with that person. Um, but part of me also loves the fact, like I can come home and I can switch off. To be honest, I say that, but I do bombard her with Architectural stuff.

She checks my posts before I post them. She's probably as knowledgeable as a part, one Architectural Assistant, you know, she could probably do that job. She's learned a lot from my annoying behavior, but no, I think what we're seeing is everything is connected to the point where, you know, whenever I'm curious about a topic, which is often it's.

It's. Yeah, it's, it's like a separate stream that I have in my head, I think. Okay. I need to go and find a specialist to talk to that about that's then going to inform the way I look at my practice and look I'm at work. And that's why it's important for me to find the perfect practice who's going to, you know, is going to, as you know, we talked about this before as well.

Who's going to kind of accommodate for someone. I didn't use this word, but people have used it. The practice that I'm talking to use it about thought leadership, right? If you have a practice that embraces thought leadership, that is, that's just, that's the kind of place I need to be because, you know, I will get on and I will work really hard and I will do all of the serious professional work, but I'm also going to be thinking about the wider profession.

Yeah. And it's an, and I can confidently say it, they're going to aid each other. So for me, it's well

Stephen Drew21:02

connected. I think so. And, uh, I I'm really pleased that you're saying, you're talking about your employee getting involved, you know, embracing it because I do think that what I would say is. 'cause I, I woke up a lot of companies and especially when, in terms of recruitment and attracting people and interest in engagement in a company like getting involved in these social media channels is worth its weight in gold, because, and as the agenda is, and I'll bring up the banner here because this is a professional podcast, but we're discussing the future generation of architects.

And, and I love what you're talking about. It's about communication. You know, it's about reaching out to people and getting involved with each other. Uh, to do that, you can't shy away from social media. It's good to go to events in person. It's good to have that conversation. Uh, my understanding is they back conversation can materialize in different ways.

I mean, we were speaking on clubhouse a few months ago and like, okay, I'm not on this so much right now. And you are. Wherever the conversation is, I think you've got to kind of ebb and flow and go with it. I think to an extent, YouTube is always here to stay because of the media. The medium itself is quite powerful and it's, you know, it's on people's TV.

Hamza Shaikh22:18

Everybody's just moving towards, um, they call it a criticism or an, a new era, but people are now learning through video rather than reading a book or, you know, they want to listen and watch something because we are now the attention deficit disordered. Uh, yeah.

Stephen Drew22:37

Yeah, it's true. Isn't that?

Hamza Shaikh22:40

She's got to go with the flow.


Stephen Drew22:42

Yeah. That's interesting because I find that some key people will listen to like the Spotify on the way to work. Some people have YouTube on the background, I'll do a live event and say, now 50 people register 10 to 20 people come in live, but the replay over the week will get free for 500 views because people are watching the embed.

People are watching they're in after work. It's like a totally different, um, it's a totally different world in that front. The other, um, key thing, which I know you as a hot topic, cause you've done recently is you had a chat with trolley at the FAF and that, and so the future architects front was quite a big deal.

Wasn't it? Because I, where I find it, impressive answer is that like, that was bolshy. You know, I imagined a lot of people were telling. You can't say this, your career will never recover. You can't say all that stuff. You can't go up against the big companies and talk about these issues and he kind of did.

And I think that we can still feel the ripple of FAF, whether or not these things change, the conversation is going and it should change. What I like is it kind of opened the door for the other aspect, which me and you will not directly involve, but with indirectly in that world where the FAF stood up for part two is, you know, architect center in the architectural profession and talking about how.

They feel the working conditions are. I mean, what was, what's your thoughts on that movement?

Hamza Shaikh24:24

There's so much to say about it. And that's why I did a podcast. My last episode was within

Stephen Drew24:29

I get it out for people to find now. So where can we find that? I would love to get your YouTube channel, right. YouTube

Hamza Shaikh24:37

for your, for people want to watch it, um, and get that now all the audio streaming platforms, if you want to listen.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, I've known Charlie like probably several months before the actual, um, FAF launched and we, we kind of met through, uh, the mad collective. Yeah. So it was, um, Yeah, there's the episode.

Stephen Drew25:06

There you go. I was like 50 minutes and you see, you know, so I think popped up cause, cause I mean the 10 for that attention deficit world and I have a short attention span.

The good episodes so far and I'll continue. And

Hamza Shaikh25:20

yeah, so with him, I I've known, I knew him way before and I kind of saw the whole campaign start from literally just Instagram polls. And you know, obviously there'd been people in the past, like, uh, notably Adam Nathaniel from, and who had. Kicked up the, the, the, the, the kind of the activism and, and kicked up the sort of awareness around exploitation for juniors in the field, um, through a whistle blowing campaign.

So the momentum was already kind of there. Charlie. And the FAF kind of picked up on that amendment momentum and really drove it home to the point where now the ARB have announced kind of the biggest changes in, in sort of in the last century. Um, but I think the more interesting thing to talk about is, you know, I mean, I think it's w we could get really deep into talking about working conditions, exploitation, and that could be a whole episode in of itself.

But yeah, let me just kind of talk about the conclusion, because the conclusion that was reached by him by the FAF and by the subsequent poll that the architect's journal did, um, and therefore what actions the ARB are now taking was the same conclusion. That I had, you know, a long time ago. And it was actually the reason the two worlds design podcasts came up in the first place.

So, you know, the two was, is on podcast. My apprehension of getting into a field and my kind of fear of being part of a field that was strictly doing one thing, like just building, building, because I instantly felt as soon as I finished my part one that holy crap, we've just been learning graphic design skills.

We've just been learning narrative, building storytelling, fictional illustration. We've been learning. Historical writing, socioeconomic, you know, politics. I can go on. We've been learning about all these things. What other profession requires you to learn that much, that quickly, that intensely to heart, to that level.

Okay. Then you add onto that when you do this specific Architectural. Let's say you're doing an architecture project on, um, you know, let's say you're doing it on, um, biophilic design or something. You then become a little, you know, a six month long specialist in biophilic technology. You start looking at sustainable system.

So what I'm saying is Architecture is also the profession of polymaths and you know, maybe I'm being arrogant here, but I'm biased. What can I say? I think our profession is, has so much more potential. Think of all the things I just named. Yeah. To then how much are we restricting ourselves to then just come out and we're doing toilet details who are doing door details.

I mean, designing a building and I do not want to take away from the power of what, you know, a building does, what, you know, what the urban environment does, what actual built structure does. Cause those things are magical inner themselves and they, they change the world in a way they form the world. There is, there is so much scope for when you leave architecture school.

It doesn't make sense for people to go from such a diversified education system to then something that is so narrow. Um, and we're seeing that change. And so that, that's how the whole two worlds as I'm podcast started, I spoke to first episode was with Scheid saline and he's, you know, he's. Pretty much like a historical scholar, who's redefining sacred space in the UK from due to his research, but he's an Architectural in he's an architect is professor second episode with Adam Ferman.

I've told you about an already people, probably know as well as you know, architectural background dropped out before part three. And now he's like award-winning, um, designer, interiors and furniture. Um, it's just an amazing kind of philosophical mind as well. Yeah, I can go on. So the whole podcast is based on that.

So after I spoke to Charlie and after the whole campaign went through that kind of, you know, incredibly fast paced. Uh, kind of viral, uh, phase. And I think COVID played, we spoke about on the podcast that COVID played a massive role in really catalyzing the movement because everybody was in the digital space.

Everybody was able to get behind the campaign and the conclusion he reached and they reached. We need to be more multidisciplinary architect. The term architect, the architectural profession needs to open its doors, open its wings to provide more diversity in the services we offer to allow more people to call themselves qualified architects who offer different ranges of services.

So those things would essentially increase the value of the architect. And what's the value of the architect is increased. All these things like exploitation, low pay, you know, exploitative, mistreatment, all these things, they start to inevitably improve. Um, so, you know, I think what Charlie has done where the FAF has done is incredible because what it's done is it's provided a robust case for this.

It's provided, it's actually initiated the conversations that happen at the top tables. And, you know, the ARB are now making massive changes to architectural education.

Stephen Drew30:46

It's amazing, you know, I think hats off to FAF and everyone involved and everyone's supporting it really. And because of. The conversation has to be had, but I love what you said.

Then I want to pick up on a few things on that because you're right. You know, an architecture, you start in the uni and I was just so you know, right. I imagine you got a really. That's great for your dissertation. You know, you gotta, you know, cohesive narrative. I was, that was not my strength. Right. But I was good at pitching what I was good at doing the presentations.

That was my thing. And, you know, I, I think, I think at first for the design, but the other modules is a bit 50 50, like, you know, but there's room there's room for some one in architecture. And the skills that you're on about is amazing because. I think it takes someone brave as well. It's, it's amazing to get your part free.

You don't have to go the traditional route, you know, there's room for people. I know successful people. I've built businesses on the back of a, um, you know, a degree in diploma in architecture. I know programmers to do. Um, one of my best friends in university is part one who's gone on to. Be involved in the user interface of like awesome apps and they love his architectural design.

And an interesting fact is that, so, you know, the platform, the Architecture, Social is built in mighty networks. The chief. Engineer behind the mighty networks used to be an architect. And I think really? Yeah. And it was a small world. Cause, cause I was speaking to the owner of it because I'm one of the costumers and she's like, yeah, you know, you look at the new tech demo and the guy when he's making the tech demo for my, in that.

He based on, um, an idea called California architects. And I'm like, that's the Architecture, Social Shawn. So I dropped him a message and he's like, yeah, I used to do it. And now we do this. So, you know, these skills you, once I think you're, you have the eyes you, you study as an architect, you have that. And even the, how I approach business, I look at.

You know how, like, from the perspective that I was taught, so yeah. It's, it's, it's interesting. What are you thinking

Hamza Shaikh33:00

it's gonna it's it's gonna make a lot of people uncomfortable. We're already has. I think maybe the, maybe the generation or the people who think of 'em. I mean, look to the point of, there is a place for everyone in architect.

Um, for those people who are precious about, look, we have a very streamlined function in society. We design and, and create buildings and spaces for people to inhabit and occupy in whatever. Right. But I don't think that should be lost because you know, all this talk of like diversifying architects coming out of architecture school and then they go and do, maybe they go and do brand marketing psychology or something.

Yeah, they're going to be amazing in that because they've learned how to, how people think they've learned about human behavior, about what societies need. Therefore, they're going to be very good at those jobs as well. And that's where you see people go into those types of professions like UI and UX.

What I was always thinking is there needs to be that level of flexibility. And that's why each episode, I tried to get someone different. Who's doing something different with their architectural background and education, right. And amazingly, also the FAF and Charlie said as well, you know, the, the, the, the ARB will be doing that.

They will be bringing out more diversified opportunities for people to call themselves architects and opening up the education system. It, like I said, it's going to make people anxious is going to make certain people kind of scared. Like what the hell happened, even me like what the hell happens to my title once I get it, hopefully next year, like it doesn't mean anything and was maybe, maybe a wound, but we're part of this change now.

And what I see actually happening is. The term and the title architect dissolves, and it's no longer this thing which everyone's chasing, but instead you can equate it to sort of the fine art movement where, you know, initially everything creative was art was art, but then technology came in now there's graphic design and there's, you know, and there's, um, um, you know, what do you call it?

A sculpture or there's all sorts of different mediums of art. And each one is now a different field and now a different specialism. That the same thing could happen with architecture that suddenly you're not going to an, a school of architecture, but you're going to a school of, of spatial user experience design, or you're going to a school of, um, you know, building integrated management technology.

Where your focus in that school might be everything BIM oriented, everything to do with the construction industry. Whereas in the previous example, you're going into that school of, um, special, and you're learning about coding for, uh, PPV people to use websites. And how does that actually correspond to the digital space that people occupying the city, which was my dissertation, by the way, um, So, you know, and we see it a little example of this already, which is the London school of architecture, which is an apprenticeship specialized school.

Okay. Which broke off from the stereotypical Architectural template and is now offering a route into architecture as a field that focuses very, very closely on the professional working world. And. So there's this spoke for more, for more of that.

Stephen Drew36:29

Do you know what? I love it. Um, and I tell you what, for someone that's I've I left Architecture in the sense of go away and I didn't do my part free.

So send me a notes when you're done. Maybe I'll get my part pretty well. But, uh, I think there's something interesting about architecture and there's something that you can go into different careers that you can get all the money in the world and all this stuff, but there's something so cool about this, like professional, where you get to design build, make an impact on the physical environment and make a difference on people's lives.

So that's super, super cool. The thing that I keep thinking of it doesn't need to be the one or the other is, is it so what. Let's bring it back to the start of the conversation, which you can, you can relate to like content creation. It can actually inform it can spread the awareness on the design that you do for an architectural practice.

It's not one or the other. And that's what I find interesting. It's not like, oh, I've got this other dual life on YouTube, YouTube. I mean, YouTube. And then day I'm in, um, um, um, you know, an architecture practice. I am convinced that they too can like constantly boost the travel. Um, and I think that in terms of the future generation of architects, it needs to keep constantly embracing those outer scales.

So, I mean the last four I have in that answer before open up the combo is that was interesting because I work part-time and accurate Lowery. And we're looking at, in the practice. I can't remember a staff kind of as a specialism that they take pride in and it can be external factors, which affect bowls throughout the talent within the practice.

So for example, one person is actually passionate about all the regulations that are going on with fire, but we've also got a VR department and, you know, the VR tool, which at first, you know, you have a few beers and you think like, oh, we'll get the steam VR. And that would be cool. But that was actually used in a plant.

Um, you know, it's peaking with the planning consultants to convince them that actually. You couldn't see from street level, the proposal. So all these things that you learn out there really, really affect the practice. And I think that talking about content creation, it has more effect in my world. So for example, the video that you did with me, Uh, I got to see inside their office.

I haven't been there for many years and people can see that. And I think that that could be, you know, there's other values as well as directly in architecture, but indirectly for the company for content creation through other people's passion. Hmm,

Hamza Shaikh39:06

amazing. A hundred percent agree. It's like, um, you know, one, as I explained, one scenario there of things kind of disintegrating in architecture practice or architects, themselves kind of being different things.

But the other option is just the definition of an architect opens up. And yeah, you know, you look at firms around the world and you know, even in the UK right now where they are, this is what I was saying. Like diverse. We need to diversify the services. We are. 'cause yeah. You know, and it's already happening.

So it probably happened before. I know, I'm not saying I came up with this idea. It's probably been happening way before, but I realized that, you know, once you, once a practice opens