Discussing Architecture in the Metaverse with an Architect, Fatemeh Monfared
By Stephen Drew
May 2, 2022
0:00 / 01:01:54
Stephen Drew00:00

Hello everyone. I am Stephen Drew from the Architecture Social, and it is nearly Christmas. So I've got my Christmas. Um, t-shirt on, she says, it's the time to be sleeping, but we've got more important things. Cause there's no point they're sleeping now because there's something happening in the world of architecture.

Is it this world? Is it another world who knows what we'll try and get to the bottom of it. And we'll try and learn something together. I'm talking about the world of NFTs. The metaverse I'm talking about what you might have been hearing on social media. What you hear. A lot of people have divisive opinions of some people saying what a load of rubbish.

How do people go? And this is the picture you're going to miss out. Well, we will talk all about that today. And I am joined by an architect of the metaverse, some of the knows more than me, and that is the whole point because we can learn together. So I'm joined by the fabulous Fatima. how are you today?

Fatima? Are you okay?

Fatemeh Monfared01:03

Yeah, I'm great. It's a beautiful sunny day here in Madrid. So I'm saying great.

Stephen Drew01:08

You're in Madrid. Oh my gosh. This is like deep Southeast Lucia. I'm going to be going to Wales next week. That's how you are. I didn't know how to introduce an FTS. And, but what I will say before we jump into it for the last two weeks, I have been going down that rabbit hole of research that like mad world, you know, and it's been really, really interesting, but for anyone that is not familiar with yourself first, you want to tell us a bit about yourself and then we can talk about entities and stuff.


Fatemeh Monfared01:47

Yeah, sure. Uh, well, I'm an architect. I did my, I got my master's degree here in Madrid. Um, soon after, uh, I started getting, I started working in the, in the NFC and metaverse space. Um, basically it all just started with a friend of mine coming to me and saying, Hey, well, uh, I have a guilt which we'll get into later.

I mean like, and he's like, well, we need to design the headquarters of, uh, Business in the metaverse. Um, do you want to do it? And I'm like, definitely. Yes. So it started from there and here I am.

Stephen Drew02:26

Well done. Good for you. That's awesome. Now I used to be, you mentioned Guild staff. So I played world of Warcraft when I was like 18 for years and years and years.

It's a video game where you can be involved, but the video game designers actually design it. Now my understanding with the metaverse it's very, very different. So there's one that I've been following called de-central land. I don't know. I mean, it's very interesting and people can go on there on their browser and they can go on to central land and they can browse around.

Well, I'm going to be honest, the graphics compared to the games, even though I was playing years ago, not the best, but that's not the pot, but that's not the point really is that, and it's very early on, but, so what metaverse is your friend on about where this Guild should be? Just out of curiosity, the

Fatemeh Monfared03:24

guilt is investing on different projects that are, that have their own different metaverses, but their headquarters is in decentral.

Stephen Drew03:32

Okay, but ah, so it isn't. Oh, wow. Okay, cool. So for anyone listening, you should totally check out this central land and you can see, you can see a bit what we're talking about now. Okay. That's cool. That's interesting because it reminds me these kind of things a bit like, do you remember the second life? It was a big thing.

Everyone talks about it. It reminds me slightly off that, but there's a big difference in the central land because, and we got to go slow here. Cause I'm afraid I might blow people's brains out because it is confusing at first. But the centralized at the central lands. Well, it's a bit like a game in terms of how you use it and you can walk around and talk to people.

There's a big difference that it's all kind of connected to the crypto blockchain, right? So the central land is like a. I in interpretation or it's like a platform people can use, which you, where you can actually, which is all attached to Bitcoin. So everything on the central land has value. Is that a good, slight intro to it?

Is that how you described the central

Fatemeh Monfared04:46

land? I would say that the most, I mean, it was really good, but I would say that the most important thing about it is not, it's not really like the crypto and making money side of it, but it's the blockchain that makes it the centralized. That's why it's called this.

And I think the blockchain is the technology that allows for all of these projects to be decentralized. And that's the cool thing about it. And obviously being decentralized and being on the blockchain, it's also related to cryptocurrency and you can make money.

Stephen Drew05:14

Okay. Cool. All right. Well, that's why, and thank you for that.

That's why you're the expert and that's why we're having the conversation. Right? Cause I'm always learning. I've got like an audio book right now and I'm kind, kinda learning about it as well. So yeah. Yeah. I listened to it on the way to work. I get really excited. Some are pumped up, but, um, so when we're talking about the central lines, the crazy thing about this space is that in this online space, that's just one interpretation of the metaverse.

That's just one interpretation of it. There's loads of these metaverses and metaverses, um, W I only there's, like I said, one vehicle, one interpretation. That's just like, why that metaverse right. And there's a few things which, you know, we're talking about the block train, uh, and there's different block chains as well, but then as well as the metaverse is you have, you have the actual cryptocurrencies, but the separate to that, and the bit that I'm interested as well, you have NFTs.

So what is your cause? You've researched this more than me. How, what would you say is the difference between an NFT. And a metaverse or are they

Fatemeh Monfared06:38

connected? I think they're, they're connected. So, uh, as you said, you have the blockchain, which is the technology and on this blockchain, the Metso versus built, which I would say is like a parallel virtual world, but it's just like live in this wide definition.

And then, uh, inside the metaverse she can have assets and those assets are NFCS. And in order to purchase those assets or make any other purchases within this space, you use cryptocurrency, which is the currency, which, which you do transactions. So I think that kind of like connects all of them to.

Stephen Drew07:14

I think you're right.

And so when you go on NFTs and people that listen to you and going, Steve, you're a terrible house. You're not explaining what NFTs are. So they are non fungible tokens. Okay. That is the definition that they've been around for a while. And FTEs, it's just, now it's not quite mainstream, but we're starting to hear the more.

And so a bit like you can get different metaverses you get different interpretation of non fungible tokens. And so at the moment, one of the big famous cases, isn't that there's, so there's a digital artist called people. I quite like his work, but people sold all of his art as NFTs, um, for like 66 million million million, million million.

So there's, there's there's uh, that was interesting because that's, Boone's. I tell you what, and we'll laugh for a second. Cause there's ones, I quite like a crypto punk. Cause they look like cool. And it's like 10,000 images, right. Are crypto punks. And they look like very bit co they're, all pixel art. And I love that from gay men.

Um, I wish I knew about them because I would love to buy one. But if you bought one in January for like $300, now it's worth $200,000. Right. They've kind of Boone's yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a lot in this crazy space, but, and I think one of the ways that we can kind of explain it to our listeners is maybe going into a bit more of that journey of how you got into the space.

So, so after your friend mentioned about the Guild and you kind of like what you want about where this, the central end turn the, tell me a bit about your journey and what you've been up to and what you've been learning. Yeah, definitely.

Fatemeh Monfared09:08

I mean, um, I got into it without not knowing much of what's happening.

I mean, I knew about NFCS before I, I started designing the space. I knew about people and I thought that was really cool. I mean, like, uh, I was reading this article the other day that, um, people were selling his work before he got into NFCS for like a hundred. And I thought that was really crazy. I mean, like, um, and I've been talking to artists about how art galleries tend to like take, um, takes too much advantage of the artists with their commissions and taxes.

And overall, they, they earn like a really small percentage of the sale price of the work that they have done or that they have created. So I think that that's really interesting and that's why there's a lot of artists coming into this space because that's, that's kind of like taking out the middleman and them, they finally taking power over their work, so they have power over it.

And that's really cool. And you have these royalties. So for example, when you put an NFC to sell, um, you're, you're putting the price to sell it for, but you also have the royalties, which means that every time it's being resold, a percentage of that comes to you as well. And you can, you can have a percentage between 10 to 20% of that.

So let's say that you sell your art for a hundred. Um, as an NFC and then in a few months it's being sold for a thousand dollars. You're still getting a percentage of that. And that goes on forever because it's on the blockchain, you know, and that's

Stephen Drew10:32

pretty cool. This is crazy. It's crazy. Isn't it? Because even now I'm looking at this so many as well, NFTs out, and it's really interesting.

What has value? So. Uh, what this what's really interesting for anyone that's listening, going, what the heck are they on about, um, go to a website called open sea. So open sea as a marketplace, isn't there and you can start to see all that. And there's different ones. It's like rare a bowl. And, um, and maybe you could tell me a few, but it's like one's called foundation.

Is that right?

Fatemeh Monfared11:07

Um, like categorize them into two different marketplaces ones that are open, so like anyone could sell their work. And then there are others that are curated, so are specifically for artists and you would have to apply to be an artists that, that sells on their platform. And opacity is one that's open wearable isn't is another one, um, mental, and then there's foundation makers place or known origin, which, um, we could send the links to at the bottom of the description for them as well.

And I think they're doing really cool, um, marketplaces. I mean, each one of them has their own specific things and w what's really more important than all of this. On what blockchain they are, because another issue within the NFC space is, uh, gas fees. And we can go into that a bit if you want.

Stephen Drew11:53

Yeah. Yes.

Please feel free to jump in. But basically my understanding is so when you went to meant something and so mint is the term for making something. So if you want to register something on the blockchain, you have to pay the gas price, right. And the gas prices, how much it costs to do and the, all this stuff.

And then that's basically how much the currency you have to spend on that. So the big, so, and you tell me from, right, but if he read them is really in terms of the NFTE space, the prime Marie cryptocurrency use, there are a few others, but that one's the trend. The one that's the one that is open ma. Open see supports that's the one that most people use is that

Fatemeh Monfared12:37


Yeah. So, um, let me just get back to it. So, um, you have two different types of blockchains. You have ones that work on a proof of stake and you have ones that were kind of proof of work. This just means that, um, there are some of them that use computational power to approve transactions. That's how the blockchain is sustained.

And there are others that use, um, uh, staking methods where you have to stake the coins and, and that's a lot more sustainable. So you don't need to use all of the energy of these computers being, uh, running and, um, all the time constantly. So that's, that's a lot more sustainable. It's harem is, is currently a proof of work.

So that's why gas fees. Um, if you're mincing on Ethereum, blockchain, or really, really. But if you have, uh, other blockchains that are proof of stake and mincing on them is still very sustainable. Like the prices are a lot lower and open seat, uh, offers the option of Ethereum or polygon. And polygon is a currency that is a proof of stake.

So gas fees, there are two.

Stephen Drew13:40

Okay. Is that what the purple one is an open seat as opposed to the riot? Oh, well I'm learning then. Cause I was like, what's the purple iffy rim, which is totally wrong. But you know, when you're like, I'm like, I'm two weeks into this journey you've been months on. So you're learning, we're the name wise wisdom from that.

And um, yeah, because there's a, there's a few things, so, and I'll be really, and we're all about being honest on here. Right. So I have a really good colleague who showed me a joke about NFTs and I was kind of laughing cause I was like, oh my gosh, it's so crazy that yeah. People are paying a lot of money for, um, something which can be copied.

And that was the joke at first. But when I went into it, I almost don't agree with that because I, by nature have this thing where as a kid, I would collect things. I would collect the Pokemon cards, you know, I would, yeah. I remember when I was a kid, I opened up am I grew up, my parents always supported me, but I, I wasn't, we didn't have lots of money.

So once a week I could buy, um, Pokemon cards. Right. And then one day I opened my pack and I had the shiny chars OD, which was like, whoops, so much. And I opened that. I was like, okay, uh, shaking my hands, you know? Ah, oh my gosh, I got a chance to all my friends, like, oh my God, he's rich kind of thing. And it's probably worth like a hundred pound then.

But I remember that feeling of like, I have the shiny jars and I wouldn't give it to anyone. Not like I would, when I say like, cause it was all trade in the cards. And I, I w I wouldn't give it to, I was like, no way. And then I managed to collect the free big one. So I really understand on one side of me, I can laugh about it because they hit, because what people who don't believe in through it, it's like, well, why pay a hundred thousand pounds for people's image when you can copy and paste them?

And that's true. But then on the other hand of the scale is that there's only one of the, well, it can be one, or it can be lots of additions, but if someone's made or one of one version of a painting and you buy it, then on the, on the, you were all net in the NFT space. So there's, there's two sides of the coin, right?

So you, it depends on what people believe and how they feel about it. So you could still argue that it could be replicated by everyone, but then at the same time, Like I feel is that there's only really one true owner. I mean, how do you feel about that divisive, um, opinion on the NFTs?

Fatemeh Monfared16:28

I think it's such an invalid opinion.

I think it has no basis. Honestly. I, I, I'm like really tired of hearing this opinion and it's just like, well, it's with any other painting. I mean, you see a Picasso in a museum and I could go on and replicate it tomorrow. Um, what's there to say that the value of that, because so is the value it has, you know, so, um, I think that it's the same with any kind of art and what's what this is doing is actually giving you the rights to it and it's registered in a place.

So it's kind of like you have the rights to the ownership of this specific. It, whether it's a piece of art or a contract, I've seen all sorts of things being mentored into NFCS. I mean, contracts, uh, legal documents, um, arts, whatever you want, like even variables that you can use inside the metaverse. So all of these things, it's just like legal rights to that thing.

And a lot of people can replicate it and there is no way to stop them from replicating it. But the only way to give value to the actual artwork is to register is somehow right. To have to have that value of it and, and being registered on the blockchain. I guess that's the best way to have that validation that this is a one-on-one designed by those who was registered on this date.

And it's mine now, you

Stephen Drew17:43

know? Well, I love your passion and I'll give you a Rondo post. So for anyone choking around in the five day fast, man is not impressed. United press there. You're not, you're not buying it, you're not buying it. And, um, I kind of leaned towards yourself because I think. I think that yes, you can, you can download the crypto punk and you can put it on your Twitter.

Right? Of course you can, but there's one person that really owns it. And if you really want to look into it, someone could really find it. And that person, if they put it on their profile in my head, it weighs a lot more than, um, you know, just the person that copy then Brian. And, and if it, I'm sure it's up for interpretation, but if I own the NFT.

Copies and pastes, I don't care because you, you kinda know that deep down you're, you're the owner of it.

Fatemeh Monfared18:43

So sorry, but I, I mean, the points of those, uh, crypto currencies are not just to put it on your Twitter account. I mean, once you own it, then you're a part of a club. And the only way you can be a part of the club is to actually own the NFC, not to put it on your profile on Twitter.

So you can download it as many times as you want and put it on your profile on Twitter. Like I can make a replica of, of a Picasso and put it on my profile, but that doesn't mean I'm a part of a club of a really lucrative arts collectors, but actually owning your real Picasso makes me part of a club of people who are owning it.

And that's a privilege that you can do by just.

Stephen Drew19:22

Well sides. Right. I would keep putting the clap thing, but it's going to get, it's going to get bored. It's going to get bought. It's going to get, I'm going to get, I go, I'll get a new sound for the next one, but let's follow on that point. And because that's where I'm interested in them.

Um, and I'm kind of dabbling with it. And my head's on the Architecture Social because, um, the use of social there's a few components there's and just so for, you know, fats, there's the online forum where it started from, but the website, as well as being like an online directory of businesses in architecture companies, jobs, events.

So there's like this whole like job board, this whole directory, and a lot of it because of my background in recruitment that we touched upon when we spoke, I've done recruitment for last eight years. A lot of this stuff. That I do is helping people get jobs. That's what I hope, you know, so, you know, I had to get you your CV, the portfolio, and I kind of see that there could be something in the NFT space, which really helps them, you know, or if, for instance, like when you said, you know, it's not just the, their manage, perhaps maybe if someone owns an NFT, which is of seeing how I roll out some manatees and this a certain amount to them, maybe their membership tickets, right.

Maybe there some interpretation because the board, a yacht club, which is quite a famous one, they have exactly the same thing you're talking about. Right. Whereas if you own a board Abe, you could actually go to the, um, they did like a concert and it was. For everyone that has a boar day, but you can turn up and you can go to him.

And then also they have like a bathroom. I dunno if you've heard about this, but it's like an online bathroom and members can go and they can draw something on the wall every 15 minutes. And that's kind of like an experience which has. Shed for ticket holders. So that opens up a lot of possibilities, right?

I mean, what do you think?

Fatemeh Monfared21:25

Definitely. I mean, I think that that's the whole point of it. It's not like, literally just like, okay, I have this image, I put it as my profile, but it's, it's just a new way that society connects, I guess, you know, and I think that's going to be, um, a really cool way to have that.

And I believe also in women, in the space, I mean, we have so little woman in this space and I'm always like trying to get more, uh, obviously, and, and, um, just like the support we have in the space as well. And there was this collection that came out recently that I absolutely adore, which is called women rise NFC.

And I think that, you know, like having that NFC is not just owning the NFC in itself, but being a part of it. Other female entrepreneurs in the space or in any other space. And that, that, you know, that group that supports you to move forward. And I think that, you know, that that is the most important thing about it.

Not just having it on your profile page on Twitter or whatever.

Stephen Drew22:21

Amazing fair play fair play. I think, I think you're right. More and more. I, well, that's always, there's always been a trend, especially in the gay men world where unfortunately that there's less female people in the space, but if we kind of, if you're not familiar, especially any female architects list, then you should check out the space because it's such an exciting space.

And I agree, we need, it's a bit like actual architecture in the non Mount of the physical verse. Whereas actually female architects are so important and add infinite amount of value. So it would be quite nice if that was, um, in, in. In the meta space in the NFTE space. So, okay. So we've touched upon these and there's a lot going on.

And so for anyone listening to this, you're going to have to keep going into the space because we're just, we're just touching on the surface. And I guess the idea is when you hear these things that I'm talking about, our Fatima's talking about, you have to do your own research and you, you might agree with us.

You might not. However, that's talk about it. We have an architectural twists for a bit. Okay. Because yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, architects in the metaverse, I think you started off with a great example where your friend would the central and wanted you as an architect. Then I think again, your brain can go off in different directions, but there's lots of things.

Ways to go about it. Uh, one of my, uh, so I, I work, I work part-time at a company called accurate Lowery. One of the directors, all the Valarie, very successful. He was like, oh, I can see NFTs working as a way to raise money for projects like crowdsourcing. And I was like, wow, I never even thought about that.

I see it a bit differently because I see it more close to, um, I'm interested in the Architecture, Social, what can I do a bit like the board eight yacht club, but then we have the designing in the matter space as well and all this stuff. So what are you most excited about on, in an architectural sense that can be done with, um, and if T's and the Metta, the.

Fatemeh Monfared24:34

I think definitely, um, designing inside the metaverse. So there are, but like a hundred at Metro versus coming out every single day. It's really crazy to like, keep up with all the new Metro verses that are coming out and all of the, all of them need design. I mean, they have the basic graphics. Then, as you say it in the central line, the graphics are not that great, but I mean, the basics are there, but then you have all these plots of land or states, or you have even sometimes worlds and they need to be designed.

Someone needs to be there to design those spaces. And like, actually a fun fact, I was with a recruiter who was showing me how to use LinkedIn to do different things. And he was like, you know what, let me show you a crazy search. And what he did was he searched, uh, LinkedIn, uh, members, like people who are using LinkedIn right now that, uh, that put that their architects on their profiles.

Um, and it was like a million, um, results that came out and then he just put like a, in the search to have metaverse as well. So anything related to the matter, it doesn't have to be a metaverse architect. So architects that are, that have an account in LinkedIn and also also work in the matters. The results like went from a million to 50 and out of those 50 out of those 50, but like 30 or 40 of them were actually like on the tech side of things.

They're not architects as designers. So like designers, architects in this space were so little, so, so little, like,

Stephen Drew26:04

I know, I know, you know how I know that's where I find you for the podcast. Exactly. That it's like, it's like 10 people, you

Fatemeh Monfared26:13

know, it's, it's really.

Stephen Drew26:17

W w and we can, we can hypothesize into why that is maybe practice on this.

They're too busy, they hearing about it. But also, I mean, there's, there's a marketplace coming up called like, um, uh, uh, Reno V right. Or

Fatemeh Monfared26:32

Novi. I know about it.

Stephen Drew26:34

Yeah. So I was quite interested in that and I'm part of Bayer and you'd be impressed with me. I'm part of the telegram group. So I can actually, how you see me trying?

Yeah. I'm kinda like looking at looking around a little bit research, you know? Um, and it's really interesting, but the, their battles with the marketplace, it's just, it's just too, it's too much for me. Cause I was tempted like, oh yeah, Architecture, Social. So directory. Maybe I could open up a marketplace, but then, oh my God.

To go into like a token economy economies and yeah. Token omics, and then like setting up a platform and all this stuff. I spent a few hours research there and I was just like, wow, this is just, that's probably too much. I think what I'm interested in it more is like a project, like the board shape yacht club, where it could be on the open sea, or it could be on in the OVO or whatever, but I don't really want to go into token Nomics.

Right. I don't really want to set up a marketplace. I mean, how do you feel? Are you like me where that's like too much or,

Fatemeh Monfared27:39

yeah. I mean, I think for your, I think it's a, for me, it depends on the project. So depending on what you want to do with your project, I would say. Like, for example, for NABI, I don't see it doing it any other way.

Like that was their idea. They wanted to create a marketplace for architects specifically. And I think that's really beautiful. Exactly. So it makes sense that they are, they're getting into all of that and they're investing in that, but then your project, it looks like something that you should go the board at yacht club, like

Stephen Drew28:06


Yeah. Well, I, well, and I respect that. And then so like renewals, if you're listening, I'm quite interested in working with you guys because they can support 3d model, plant, um, files. And that's the, that's currently one of the, because when, when we talk about these right now, like, so the open seat. When you submit and you, you mint.

So mint is the term. Isn't that for like making an NFL team, it currently supports a few image files. I forget which ones, but like a JPEG or a GIF. And so you get lots of gifts and you've got a few movie files, then you've got audio files and then you've got one or two Fredy model files. And this is like, I think the, the, the, um, the, the kinds of the bet that Reno V potentially could solve, because I think there's like OBJ format and there's like, oh yeah.

GLB yeah, no, you're right. I'm totally wrong. It's not even though BJs is GLB, which I never knew that before. And then I think it's like a, oh, it's a blender format and that's limited to 40 mag. So that's a massive. Um, that's a ma massive bottleneck, as far as I'm concerned, because in architecture models can be massive.

Right. And decentral land, which you are on a, it's like, it's also like a crazily small size there as well. Isn't it? And that's one metaverse surely,

Fatemeh Monfared29:33

um, the central line, it kind of depends. Um, it depends on, uh, what, what, what kind of plot you have. So if you have a simple, just one single plot, which is like a fixed, so that's 16 by 16, and that gives you limitations of the amounts of triangles or polygons that you can have insight.

And it also gives you, um, limits in terms of height and like everything. But if you have a bigger plot, then you can have bigger projects. So that kind of like, it kind of goes along with how much you invest in it. That the more you invest, the bigger you can go. So.

Stephen Drew30:05

Got you. Yep. Okay. That's really, that's interesting.

Yeah. Um, at the

Fatemeh Monfared30:10

centralized, it's not really a marketplace. I would say it's, it's not like we're Novi, we're Novi is a marketplace, but the central line is like a metaverse where the things that you buy from the marketplace are actually put into experience.

Stephen Drew30:25

Well, I think, um, who, who knows? Right. But, um, for me, yeah, the marketplace thing is just too deep.

I kind of looked into it. It's really interesting. Cause you can do it if you want to. And I'm going to sound really geeky to list this year. But if you get like, um, smart contracts, I think you can set up a marketplace, but what is the point in setting up for me setting up a marketplace when you've got people like that, doing a marketplace and also like you cannot market places for the marketplaces and the marketplaces.

Right. And the other thing where I'm going with this. While we're talking about beautiful NFT is like the board APR clubs kind of cool. But then you've got for anyone listening to the board API, we talk about this and go, what the heck am I on about then the artwork in there is apes, but then you get like loads of NFTs with apes.

So is like the angry ape yacht club that dah, dah, dah, and some of them are official and some of them are not. And so unlike, unlike crypto punks, you've got like crypto funks and that's like an unofficial adaptation on it. So, uh, I think what's really interesting is then the marketplace puts their own value on them.

Right. And they're not as valuable as the original ones, but I guess what I'm trying to say is for the amazing NFTs that are out there, this is also, there's a lot of NFTs, which in my opinion, offer no value or they not that good. It's like, there was one I was looking at and the guy was giving them away for free and they were pictures of sea, sea containers in architecture.

And they want particularly done really well. And they were crappy photo shops even though of these things. And I was like, that's just rubbish, but w how, how do you feel, do you think that also there's a lot of junk out there as well on.

Fatemeh Monfared32:33

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. There's a lot of John copter it's open.

So that's why there is, you also have these marketplaces that are curated and you can get on them when you want to see things that are filtered. I mean, you, you have places where, and I, and I liked that, you know, because I like giving the opportunity to everyone to do what they want to do. And you never know, because maybe something that's, you might be like rubbish to someone.

It could be something very interesting, you know? So I, I wouldn't want to take that opportunity from that person to mint, whatever they wanted, they want to mint or whatever they want to show to the world. And I think that's really cool to have the balance. That's why it's really nice that we have so many marketplaces because they're ones that are totally open.

You can do whatever you want on it, and are very specific ones where they're curated and you have, um, you, you can find what you want exactly there.

Stephen Drew33:23

Well, side's well, it said, so I guess it goes up to the powers that be or karma for people to. Put their own value on there. And that's the kind of the super excite and bat and the scary, but isn't it there.

So it's like, I was hearing stories. I was reading stories, I should say, uh, you know, the cryptic punk guys, which is the most, as far as I'm away, apart from people who's not as the crypto punk project is like super high value, but they were giving them away into version 17. No one wanted them, you know, and that's, and that's also the interesting bit that I see is that say now I do a project the interesting bit, which keeps it alive in my head is the royalties, which is mad.

The royalties are amazing. So you could sell your first week a piece of work for a hundred dollars. But see, now that, that piece that you, someone bought from you for a hundred dollars. Sells for $1,000. You will, you, if you sat a royalty of 15%, you get another a hundred dollars every time it's sold. I think that is such an awesome way to incentivize artists.

I mean, do you get excited about the royalties as

Fatemeh Monfared34:45

well? Definitely. I think it's like the revolutionary thing about NFCS in terms of arts specifically, I think. And that's why we have this huge movement of artists moving into the NFC space. The royalties are a game changer. Like I, I totally agree on that.

I think it's the best thing that could have happened.

Stephen Drew35:03

Yeah. I think there's like, to me, what is interesting about it? Because if you sound like a membership, um, token, then, you know, you could actually have like a membership which keeps repeating because when it's so. The person keeps getting the royalties.

So it's really interesting way of like say now if I, if I set up a club and there's 10,000 memberships and people keep trading them, the royalties would keep paying for the kg or maybe they don't, but it's a really interesting experiment on you know, how to do it. And I, I just think it's, I just think it's like so revolutionary because yeah, normally it's the other way round, but, and you tell me this because you've experimented in the space, but actually lots of these different, um, marketplaces, lots of these different stores have different fees.

They, so, and that's what we should say. So there's a fee on the website listing as well as the royalty, but the fee, is it that the fee is just for the first time listing or is it, does it go on, do you know much more about that? Fatima? Yeah, I

Fatemeh Monfared36:11

think that, that, do you still hear. Do you hear me?

Stephen Drew36:16


Fatemeh Monfared36:17

So I think that depends on the platform.

So on open sea, you can create a collection and once you create your own, your collection, you pay the first time when you're mincing in that collection and everything else, you don't have to, you don't have to pay, but there are other ones that you have to pay two gas fees, one for listing, and then the other one for mincing.

And they can be really, really high prices, very unsustainable as well. So, um, you have to be very careful with that. And, um, open seas is a great place to start, obviously, because you don't have to pay much. And right now on open seat, you have polygon as well. So that's really good because polygon gas fees are really low.

So if you're, if you're planning to just start to test out something, I would say that's the best place, like the most accessible most, um, cost worthy place to start. Um, but then, but then you have the other ones, like for example, on foundation, you can go up to like $300, $500, uh, between mentoring and. So just, just to get your artwork there, it's $500 you have to pay.

So that's a lot.

Stephen Drew37:20

Wow. Wow. Holy, holy moly. So you need to think about it. Have you sold any NFTs yet? Um, I think you had, if I did, when I did research the stop, it's tell me about that journey. Has it, was it been fun and interesting?

Fatemeh Monfared37:34

Very fun. Very interesting. So the first collection I did was, uh, I did a collaboration with a contemporary dancer, so we took pictures of her.

Yeah. We took pictures of her. It was really fun. And then I did the backgrounds, uh, and the whole idea was. Well, let's try to like do something because she's a dancer on Amar and I'm an architect. So like, you know, let's try to do something that relates our two carriers. And it was really fun. We loved doing it, enjoyed doing it.

And we released three NFTs and two of them got sold like within hours. And we were in that great at marketing, we were just like super new in the, in the space. And we were just so impressed. Um, the first one was bought by an anonymous buyer that we have no idea who it is, but the second one was bought was bought by an artist.

So like, you know, you can see their names and you can go like check out who they are. And we were so curious to know who who's interested in our work, you know, and he's also an NFT artist. So thank you to her for, for purchasing our arts. It was